Thread: Bolt heads slipping out of track
Retrieved: 06/03/2014

My Lithgow has an issue with the bolt head slipping out of the track. It seems that when I open the bolt after firing the bolt head likes to slip out above the track, and I have to push it back down in. Is this normal?

Also, there is a Savage manufactured No.4 mk1* at a local gun shop, but there is an odd looking gap in the groove that the bolt head slides in. Is this abnormal, and would it interfere with operation? I'd like to pick this one up as a project rifle, as it's only $150 and I could probably get Blaine to at least cover sales tax and maybe give me some .303 if I'm lucky.

tektitik
Aug 20, 2007

Not sure about the Lithgow. My Long Branch No.4 Mk1 Has the same gap and I posted the same question. I was told that it was normal of the Longbranch No.4 Enfields. You may want to check if it is a Long Branch or not.

As for the operation it really doesn't interfere. You just have to make sure that when you put the bolt in make sure you got it on the track. A few times I didn't get it on their solid enough and it gave me a little bit of trouble.

Ultimately it is certainly not something that should deter you from buying the rifle. After all Long Branch made great Enfields.

Dspig
Aug 20, 2007

That gap in the bolt guide is one of the defining differences between the No.4 Mk I* and the No.4Mk I. They used that instead of the bolt latch found at the rear of the Mk I to release the bolt head so that the bolt can be removed. It will be found on any Savage or Long Branch Mk I*, as those were the only factories that made the Mk I*. It will only be a problem if your bolt head is very loose in its threads, or if the corners of the notch have been damaged.

.303 British
Aug 21, 2007

I agree completely with Dspig, No.4 Mk1* was a simplified No.4 Mk1, but by no means was is it inferior. It was merely more ecomomical to manufacture for war time production.

You will find that it will have either 2, 3 or 4 grooves in the barrel as opposed to the 5 grooves originally designed.

IF IT HAS THREE GROOVES DO NOT FIRE IT - these are very, very rare. All were re-called shortly after issue and rebarreled with 2 or 4 groove barrels. The 3 groove barrels were manufactured differently and failed.

Some are about but should not be fired. two grooves is fine, just as accurate with normal ammunition but may have problems with boat-tailed - they do not fly as stable?

I think Maltby also made No.4 Mk1* ?

Unfortunately I do not know what could be the cause of your Lithgow's problems - I would suggest having the head spacing checked if you haven't already - I know that the lugs cam the bolt backwards very slightly upon opening the bolt to loosen the fired brass, could excessive headspace cause this to slip off track?

DespicableChang
Aug 21, 2007

Very surprised to hear a Lithgow doing that. If it is, the bolt head must be severely worn. It is common with Savage and Long Branch Enfields as they had the bolt gap in the rail instead of the plunger to take them out. While it was economical I have to say it is also inferior. Aside from this Lithgow, I've never heard of another "plunger bolt removal" Enfield experiencing this kind of problem. It is not an easy fix either. For a little more milling and the addition of a plunger you eliminate this problem almost completely.

wpflgun
Aug 21, 2007

While I do not consider the No.4 Mk1* design inferior, it is possible to damage the grooved rail, leaving a little too much gap, thus causing the bolt head to pop out on its own. I got a Savage that had that problem a while back, but returned it to Century for an exchange. It might have been repairable, but it would have involved work on the receiver, possibly welding.

If you just got the rifle, I would suggest returning it for an exchange. If that isn't an option, perhaps we can help figure out a solution. Can you post some close-up pics of the receiver area around the rail notch?

GSCSA
Aug 21, 2007

If you can't return the rifle, Scott Stonehill of Obsolete Screw and Enfield Repair can fix it for you. He is very reasonable as well. See the sticky at the top of the page. Oh, and I know he has the capability to do this repair.

Marlon
Aug 21, 2007

Man, I have to say that I've never heard the bolt head slipping on a SMLE.

On the No.4 design it seems to happen fairly often, and I understand the quickest fix is to grind part of it back and drill a small screw in its place.

GOPHERIT
Aug 21, 2007

Maybe it's not the lug, did you look at the spring latch on the receiver? It could be that little leaf spring it could be weak.

John Galt
Aug 21, 2007

It only happens occasionally (i.e. twice out of 22 rounds the other day), and I think it has something to do with the angle at which I push the bolt forward. But I like the rifle, it's in good shape otherwise, and it shoots REALLY well (no cartridge deformations either), so I think I'll just mention it to Blaine the next time I go to the shop (probably this weekend), and keep the Lithgow in the safe.

Rapidrob
Aug 21, 2007

No, it is NOT normal for it to do this at all. Either the spring is weak, the bolt head is excessively worn, or the lip / notch the bolt head rides on is worn from years of hard use.

John Galt
Aug 21, 2007

which spring do I need to check?

Old Schoolr
Aug 23, 2007 I've posted here on this issue before w/a link to the Gunboards forum discussion on this topic. In short there a few issues. The chipping of the slot is one. The hopping bolt head is also affected by a dirty extractor spring. There is also the fit of the bolt threads to the head threads to be considered.

There are bolt heads found which have been chamfered apparently to better guide the bolt back onto the rail. There doesn't appear to be any documentation to support chamfered bolt heads so no one knows if this was an official fix.

I doubt if there are many No.4 Mk.1*s out there that don't show any chipping on the corners of the cut-out. The issue is; how much material is gone?

My Savage has probably less than .5 mm chipped & a non-chamfered head and it will hop out of the track. I wrapped about one turn of Teflon pipe tape on the bolt, replaced the head & it works fine. The fit of the head to the bolt is somewhat loose. I've thought of peening the bolt to tighten up the relationship but the thread tape is a non-destructive fix.

Some have the opinion that the '*' receiver is stronger than the plunger type as the plunger requires metal to be remove close to the locking lug of the bolt. Probably an academic discussion though.