Thread: Roached Savage No.4 MkI* Project
Retrieved: 06/19/2014

I came across a roached out Savage No.4 MkI* mix-master that was basically complete; but it had been badly mistreated. Honestly, it looked like somebody dug it up out of a field, hosed it down with salt water, then stored it for years in a box of damp filth. The upper handguards are both busted and the buttstock is junk. It is the kind of rifle that you just don't buy. Except I did. I wasn't gonna, but I did. Despite the condition, it had 3 things going for it:

1.) I didn't own a Savage No.4 MkI* yet.
2.) Somehow, the bore still has strong rifling and is an absolute mirror inside.
3.) It was dirt CHEAP (pun fully intended).

Having said that, it is going to hopefully become a "restored" shooter. Normally, I am averse to "restoring" or otherwise altering these old rifles, but since this one is already a mix-master, and is rusty and crusty, it has no value whatsoever as it sits. But with that bore, I think I can have a nice display/shooter. I am gonna make it a winter project.

The metal looks to be in good shape, but it does have one thing that may need fixing. On the little rail/lip that the bolt head slides down, there is this notch:

When you cycle the bolt, if the rifle is tilted, the bolt head will jump the rail. I don't think that notch is supposed to be there, as my No.5 doesn't have it. Is this a Bubba modification or a form of damage?

TheFastMan
Jan 29, 2014

Your No.5 is based on the No.4 Mk.1 type bolt release with the push button style bolt release. Savage produced No.4 Mk.1s for a short period before switching to the No.4 Mk.1* which has a simplified bolt release which is just a slot cutout in the bolt tract. It looks like a small piece is chipped off on the edge of the slot. That will be a tough fix. You would have to weld a thin piece of metal back onto the track and file it down so the bolt slides.

b32dominator
Jan 29, 2014

As stated above this is not a quick or easy fix. But on the bright side not that big if a deal. This has happened to a number Longbranches and Savages that share this trait, but it usually will not affect the cycling of the bolt. My Longbranch has a slightly smaller chip and it had never given me a problem.

East of Here
Jan 29, 2014

When you cycle the bolt, the bolt head will sometimes jump out of the channel when the bolt is pulled back, and will then ride forward on top of the lip, rather than in the channel. The bolt will close on the chamber, even if the bolt head is not in the channel. If the bolt head jumps the channel when loading a round, how dangerous would it be if the rifle was fired with the bolt head sitting on the lip of the channel, instead of inside it?

Alan De Enfield
Jan 29, 2014

Its a fairly common fault with the Longbranch & Savage (Mk1*) rifles, although your 'chip' looks to be particularly large.

I'd guess thats why it was abandoned and 'buried in the dirt'.

Repair is almost impossible - any temperature to try and weld a new piece in will destroy the hardening of the action.

Hang it on the wall and enjoy.

East of Here
Jan 29, 2014

If it is unsafe and unfixable, I might just cut it up and part it out.

RSeneff
Jan 29, 2014

The forward part of the rail looks smaller also. On my savage the forward part of the rail is the same size as the rest. Does the bolt head tilt or move when the bolt is home? If it doesn't move then it would seem it would be safe to fire. You would then have to be careful when operating the bolt.

P-14Guy
Jan 29, 2014

When a rifle in service had the bolt guide (Raceway) chipped that bad it usually was scrapped. If the barrel is in good shape it might be worth salvaging. A bit of an unusual request for a gunsmith. Please remove the barrel and scrap the receiver. I suspect it has been done more than once.

East of Here
Jan 29, 2014

Yeah, the 2 groove bore looks really good for a 70+ year old rifle. That is what motivated me to try to keep it from getting parted out or Bubba'ed in the first place. But it wasn't until after I really got looking at it closely that I noticed that chip. It seemed to function fine, but then I noticed it jumped out of the channel. It seems to lock down tight when the bolt head is in the channel, but it will be a pain in the butt to have to manually check to confirm that the bolt is in the channel prior to every shot. If it were an easy fix, I'd just have it fixed - but that seems to be out of the question. Also, I am not eager to spend a bunch of money just to make a wallhanger. Besides, if it is terminally unsafe, I can't take a chance that somebody gets hurt messing with it in the future. Luckily, I should be able to easily recoup my investment if I decide to part it out.

East of Here
Jan 30, 2014

Well, I tinkered with it some last night, and it will not lock down with the bolt head outside the channel, so that is a good thing. At least there is not much chance of anybody cooking one off with the bolt loose.

Tikirocker
Jan 30, 2014

They can be repaired when chipped... I know of a couple of smiths over the years that have been able to do it without ruining the tempering but it is a specialty gig for the experienced. You might want to ask around and see if any talented smiths can do the job in your neck of the woods.

SavageShooter
Jan 30, 2014

These most often jump the track if dry cycled on a empty magazine.

The upwards pressure of the top cartridge usually causes enough drag to prevent the bolt head from rotating out of the track.

I found that bending the lefthand feed lip up just enough that it contacts the bottom of the bolt head as it moves forawrds can also prevent rotation.

One cause of this rotation is a loose bolt body to action body fit.

When the hand pushes forwards on the bolt handle the front end of the bolt drops a hair. The inside corner of the extractor lug then contacts the bottom of the track and the bolt head turns.

When gun clubs and such used these as drill rifles someone came up with a fix. A piece of sheet metal cut from a can was bent to fit into the gap in the track. The other end was simply held tight between action body and fore end.

My MkI* no longer jumps the track so long as a magazine is in place, theres no big chips from the edges, but I'm considering making a catch from an old feeler gauge to bridge the opening just to be more certain.

PS
From the description the rifle may be flood damaged or salvaged from an old boat or the trunk of a car wreck.I've fixed up a few like that.

A rifle in sea water doesn't last very long unless very heavily greased or so deep that theres no oxygen in the water.

So long as the bore is not ruined you may be able to repair it.

East of Here
Jan 30, 2014

Thanks for all the info. I am leaning towards trying to save it. Here is some of the corrosion on the buttplate, and you can see how it looks like salt corrosion:

-and the front of the trigger guard-

And here is one of the only markings on the bolt. There is no serial number, just this:

-and the handle-

-and the head-

Hawkwood
Jan 30, 2014

I wonder if you could build up the metal on the track with a wire feed welder then file to correct shape. Maybe that wouldn't bugger the hardness.

curator
Jan 30, 2014

A good TIG welder can fix this in a jiffy. Pete Nagel (815) 732-1249 www.RestorativeWelding.com

SavageShooter
Jan 30, 2014

Remember that the track was chipped because the bolt head was jumping the track rather than vice versa.

Fixing the track may not solve the problem.

Check for too much play in bolt movement.

Sometimes the rear walls can spread a bit leaving a loose fit.

Bolt bodies with slightly larger diameter were sometimes used to cure this excess play.

Pricate
Jan 30, 2014

What about a little braze, would that work? It would not get the temp to high and it will stick to just about anything. I have not done much brazing, but just wondering if it would work?

P-14Guy
Jan 30, 2014

I don't think a braze would hold up, as Savage Shooter mentioned there is a reason why it chipped in the first place. TIG welding would work but probably would not be cost effective considering the overall condition of the rifle.

Tikirocker
Jan 31, 2014

It should be noted that not all chips in the bolt guide rib spell doom... my own No4 Mk1* has a chip in the rib, but it is not enough to cause any issues with the bolt head jumping from the guide. As always, it depends on the damage - if you see a No4 with this damage, don't assume that it is inoperable or defunct... try it first before making any judgement calls on functionality as mine has never given any trouble and is rock solid otherwise. There are other causes of chipping in the guide rib, heavy handedness in cycling the bolt by people lacking mechanical sympathy is as good as any other and not uncommon on civvy street, where you can bet 99% of these chips got chopped!

M1950
Feb 01, 2014

I bought a No4Mk1* several years ago in the same shape. The chip was easy to fix. find some sheet metal of the right thickness for the bolt slot. Clean out the gap of any jagged sections near where the bolt dismount gap is. Measure the bolt head and cut your sheet metal to fit the remaining gap. Bend it about 90 degrees. Weld in place, then dremel to fit. The whole process is easier than it sounds. The welding may harden the patch, but if it doesn't, try heating it to just past cherry red then quench it with some motor oil. Do it outside. It gets smokey. Purists may disagree, but I have several hundred rounds through mine with no problems. The broken section is closest to the chamber. It's main function is to retain the bolt in alignment when you unlock the bolt from battery. The short distance the bolt has to come back is enough to build momentum so the bolt head doesn't rotate out of the channel.

Get some good pictures of the are from a reference to show you exactly where to put the repair piece in. The repaired rail is only a guide and carries very little stress.