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Thread: Stock bolt stuck with a twist
Retrieved: 06/18/2014

The stock bolt on one on my new MkI is stuck, but it's stuck to the wood in the stock. I can see the protruding part of the bolt wiggle with the stock but I can not for the life of me get the bolt off. It seems to be frozen with rust into the stock wood. I need to remove the stock because it is loose. I need some way to loosen up the bolt without making the wood spongy. Any Ideas? Kroil is all I can think of, but I am afraid of what it will do to the wood.

Rapidrob
Feb 10, 2010

The leather washer is rusted to the bolt and stuck to the wood. A common problem. Soak the bolt from both sides with Kroil and let it set for 24 hours. Using a long,large screw driver, strike the slot with a hammer a couple of times. The bolt should come out. You can remove the oil with spray brake cleaner which will also remove the rust.

When you re-tighten the screw make sure the bolt does not protrude the socket more than two threads. If it does it will shatter your forewood when you pull the trigger.

drboompa
Feb 10, 2010

That is a VERY important piece of information. Thanks for passing it along. I did not know that.

techsupport
Feb 11, 2010

Ummmm, the leather washer is supposed to be behind the bolt, not on it. It was installed so the brass oil bottle wouldn't clank around against the butt screw.

And as I have suggested before, IMHO, the butt screw cannot shatter the foreend. If it pokes through far enough to be a problem then the foreend will not go on to start with.

Cap'nT, I assume you have the foreend off? If not it's probably too late...

The shaft of the bolt may be expanded with rust locking it to the hole. Get someone to help you. You will need to hold the butt with the barreled action hanging freely below it. Insert a large screw driver into the slot and give it a good hit with a hammer. The jarring action should shatter the grip of the rust inside the wood. A long mild steel or brass drift would do also. It won't harm the slot as long as it has a flat end.

Rapidrob
Feb 11, 2010

The bolt does and has shattered the forestocks on several rifles I have repaired. How can it not do that? it will catch the wood and try to split it apart. Please check your rifles and verify that the bolt is too far forward. And the washer?, someone does not know about where the washer is to go and they place it on the bolts shaft. I see it all of the time.

DocAitch
Feb 11, 2010

This going to be from a 50yo memory, but I remember that the protruding part of the stock bolt had flats on the end and we (my bubba gunsmith buddy and I) got the stock bolt loose by using a wrench on those flats. We then flattened the end of a soft piece of steel rod to make the screw driver.

Rapidrob
Feb 11, 2010

Some bolts do have the flats. They can be used to help unscrew the bolt if it is not rusted too badly.

Gardner
Feb 11, 2010

Ok, so you say that the stock is loose, and when you wiggle it you can see the end of the stock bolt that protrudes from the wrist wiggle.

So, if the bolt wiggles, chances are that the threads are not rusted.

Basically you think that the bolt head is welded to the wood. Possible I guess.

Just brainstorming, but if since the stock is loose, maybe you could slam the butt down on the floor. That may break the bond between bolt head and stock.

Have you visually inspected the bolt head? Can you see anything around the bolt that may be making it stick?

Alan De Enfield
Feb 12, 2010

Is it a No.1 Mk1, or a No.4 Mk1?

If it is a No.4 Mk1 then it will not have the squared off end on the butt bolt.

If its a No.1 Mk1 then it may well have the squared end.

techsupport
Feb 12, 2010

Please don't put a wrench/spanner/tool of any kind on the squared end of the butt screw (if it has a squared end). If you slip, it will burr the threads which are on the corners of the square. The bolt is harder material than the thread in the butt socket and any damage to the thread on the screw WILL damage the thread inside the butt socket. I would cut the butt off around the screw and then put a vise grip or pipe wrench on the head of the screw rather than risk ruining the receiver by tearing the threads out of it.

Make a big screw driver and file two flats on the back end of it and put your spanner on there. Get a mate to hold the butt of the rifle with it muzzle down (not on concrete) while you hold the screwdriver in the slot and turn the wrench.

On breaking things... for everyone...

Firstly, The foreends on all Lee Enfields should have no movement along their line when fitted - that is NO forward backward movement. If it does, it needs to be fixed, (we can deal with that another time). (Firing the rifle with a loose foreend WILL BREAK IT!)

The back surface of the foreend must be in good contact with the front surface of the butt socket of the receiver.

If the foreend is tight, then it WILL NOT GO ON if the butt screw protrudes.

Good fit.... tight
Attachment:
DSCF0114a.JPG

Bad fit! Loose!
Attachment:
DSCF0115a.JPG

On Long Lee Enfields, No.4 rifles and later Indian production, the butt screw should not protrude past the front face of the butt socket. If it does, then pack it with washers or cut a bit off the end... The only way it can damage the foreend is if SOMEBODY stuffs up! Either by forcing the foreend on over a screw that already protrudes or by winding the screw in too far with the foreend fitted - it is operator error- pure and simple

On a No.1 MkIII rifle it's even easier! The screw does protrude! It has a square on the end. It goes into a steel plate in the back of the foreend. Once again, if it is screwed in too far (remembering the foreend is a good tight fit with no movement) then the foreend WILL NOT GO ON.

Right in, good fit...
Attachment:
DSCF0106a.JPG

In too far, WON'T fit!
Attachment:
DSCF0105a.JPG

With these rifles there is the added advantage of not being able to tighten the screw with the foreend on because the square stops the screw from turning! You must take the foreend off, and if you do and tighten the bolt too far, then the foreend will not go back on!

UNLESS... you (or some previous owner) has tried really hard to take the butt screw out without removing the foreend. Then the square can be turned (with great effort) inside the plate, causing it to spread to allow the square to rotate under the force applied by the screwdriver. The plate is inletted into the rear of the foreend and the screw spreading the plate spreads the foreend and breaks it at the rear. Once again, OPERATOR ERROR!

Spread tie plate, cracked foreend Note, usually the tie plate cannot spread far enough to break the foreend any further on it's own...

Attachment: 2006_0530cracks0028.JPG

This is then usually compounded over time by other factors. The spreading of the rear of the foreend means the recoil surfaces of the foreend at the "draws" (don't like that term) are apart and the recoil lugs of the receiver have less surface contact because they are tending toward the inside edges of their mating surfaces of the the widened foreend. Less contact means recoil force is on the smaller area, resulting in further breaking at the rear of the foreend, usually the pieces directly behind the recoil lugs come away all the way back to the front of the butt socket.

Busted out...
Attachment:
2006_0530cracks0030.JPG

From here your foreend has no resistance to recoil other than the collar on the front trigger guard screw. It is in a hole that is open to the rear (on a No.1). As movement under recoil has the receiver moving back in the foreend, the collar is moved back toward that open end of it's hole between the tapered surfaces of the wood. This wedging action breaks the foreend from the front of the magazine well, forward toward the nosecap.

Trigger guard screw collar as a recoil surface - this is where a loose foreend breaks the foreend!

Attachment:
DSCF0119a.JPG

Now once again I have gone to a lot of effort to make this as easy to understand as I can. Please don't insult me by telling me I'm wrong because "a bloke told a mate in a pub twenty years ago..." or someone with only two or three years firearm experience knows better.

I'd suggest anyone who doubts anything I have said here pull a rifle apart- study the pieces and the way they interact with each other. Put the screw in too far (without the butt) and try getting the foreend on (gently!). Apply movement/force to the muzzle to simulate recoil in slow motion with the butt against the shoulder and the foreend in the hand and see which bits do what. Once you have done this, if you still can't see what I am getting at, ask me specific questions and I will try to do more pics to help you understand. But have a go at working it out yourself first, I'm not your mother...

My entire motivation for doing this is the fact that ignorance, not intentional, but more just misguided, is causing damage to these rifles and the spare parts have just about dried up. Every week someone comes along with a problem that could have been avoided. We need to get these things right and we need to get them right first time!

Cap'nT
Feb 12, 2010

Its a SHtLE MkI, not a No.4 and it does have the square bolt but I am afraid of mucking up the threads so I don't think I will wrench on that part. I am going to try Kroil from both ends and a few strikes with a flat head screwdriver to hopefully brake things free. If that doesn't work I will consider more drastic options like cutting the bolt. The forestock has already been split by the tie plate. It wasn't me, I took the for-end off first and it was already there. Looks like it can be repaired. Wish me luck.

candyman
Feb 13, 2010

Most of the problems that we run across on the Enfield rifles have to do with the stock bolt.

On the No.1s it is the removing of the buttstock prior to removing the forstock or putting the forestock on then the buttstock. Doing both of these cause damage to the tie plate by making it spread. Sometimes the rear of the forestock will only have small cracks and as we know the cracks will only get bigger the mor the rifle is used.

On the No.4s the problem comes about when the buttstock is put on after the forestock is on. The stock bolt is screwed in to far and will pust on the tie strap on the rear of the forestock. Sometimes the stock bolt will be screwed in far enough to crack the rear of the forestock but most of the time it will only far enough to just put pressure on the tie strap. With the stock bolt putting pressure on the tie strap the rear of the forestock will crack with firing of the rifle.

I think that we all agree that most of the damage to the rear of Enfield forestocks is due to removing and instaling the stock bolt incorrectly.