Thread: Accurizing No.4
Retrieved: 06/08/2014

I would direct this question to anyone who has accurized their No.4 using the wood-patch to receiver draws method. My questions are:

How can you tell when your receiver draws are worn and needing replacement?

Will hard maple wood work as a patch? My guess is that it will.

I know that the patch is beveled... how can you tell when your fit-up of draws to receiver is correct?

What other fore end work is done at this time? Any shimming or changes to forward band or mid-foreend center point?

Are thre any "Tips & Tricks" when doing this work?

What kind of changes to accuracy can be reasonably expected, assuming a correctly done job?

Thunderbox
06-30-2011

If you have any forwards/backwards movement in the forend after you remove the bands, trigger guard and screws, then the recoil faces are indented and need to be repaired.

Any decent hard wood is suitable to make the repair.

When you have put in new recoil faces, the forend should not fit onto the rifle action. You have to gradually adjust the recoil faces - fitting and re- fitting the forend many times - until the forend just goes onto the rifle. Ie the forend should be a tight fit.

The forend should return to its former bedding, ie good fit all around the receiver and under the chamber/ free-float up to the muzzle/ slight barrel down pressure onto front of forend.

Centre-bedding involves changing the angle between rifle and forend, and should not really be attempted unless you are quite skilled at fitting forends. Its debatable whether centre-bedding actually has any accuracy advantage over standard military bedding - standard rifles can be just as acurate as SRb rifles.

Accuracy depends upon barrel condition and ammo type/quality as much as bedding. A very good set-up using factory/surplus ammo should be able to achieve a 2" group at 100 yds depending upon the shooter, of course!. Handloads, sandbag and a scope might get the group down to 1". I have to say, however, that the majority of rifles are more accurate than the majority of shooters are able to aim...

Thunderbox
06-30-2011

Here is the basic sequence for repairing the recoil faces.

Please - no flaming by HM armourers about workmanship!; these photos just record a very quick "invisible" repair with no dowelling to the outside.

First cut out the damaged recoil faces. Bond in a hardwood block of suitable size to give good strength. Wood might need to be de-oiled on some old rifles in order for glue to adhere.

Initial shape and size of bonded wood block. I tend to remove sear, spring and trigger from action in order to shape block as a single strong unit.

Carefully refit the action to check for fit.

Witness marks left by the action's recoil faces. These marks are carefully relieved, so that on each iteration, the action fits a bit deeper into the forend. After multiple adjustments, the action should fit all the way home - but tight.

When action is a decent tight fit, I remove the centre portion of the block. Then make good and tidy up. I tend to seal all of the exposed fresh wood with wood glue, so that the risk of splintering or crumbing is reduced.

NOTE: for maximum strength, its best to drill through the entire repair from the side and use a wood dowel to afix it to the sides of the draws. I don't do this on collectors' rifles, as the dowels disfigure the outside of the forend. As rifles don't get hammered as much as they did in military service, this type of "invisible" repair lasts quite well without the dowels.

Brian Dick
06-30-2011

A good sharp chisel and small saw is all you need. I always dowel them down from the top too.

tbonesmith
07-01-2011

Here's my last one: refurb of 7.62 Range Rifle No.4 Mk1/3. I know it's not in full wood but it's the same setup at the back.

When you stock them up as directed in Peter Laidler's archived posts, accuracy is very good, the last full wood was giving me about 2MOA, as was my No.4T done the same way.

You can tell the fitup is correct by using bearing blue, without it, it's guesswork.

My tip is to go slowly, because when you've removed too much timber you have to patch the draws again (pain in the ar... but it will happen!), and ensure that nothing beyond the draws influences the centreing of the barrel (wrist and wood around receiver)

Also read, and read again Peter's instructions and be prepared for for a big job, because the first few take ages.

Good luck!

newcastle
07-01-2011

How does one use bearing blue exactly? can someone explain the process please?

Thunderbox
07-01-2011

It's just one way of checking the fit of wood to metal by using something that leaves witness marks. "Engineer blue" is the traditional method for metal fitting, but for stocking up Enfields I just use talcum powder on the wood and oil on the metal:

1. Dust the inside of the forend with talcum powder:

2. Lightly oil up the metalwork:

3. Re-fit the barrelled action. Screw everything up to normal settings. Take the opportunity to test the barrel movement & weight:

3. Dissemble the rifle. Check to see where the metalwork was touching. Adjust (carefully and in tiny increments!) where necessary:

This rifle is quite well bedded at the arrse end - good contact all around the receiver and under the chamber...

...but the barrel channel needs a little attention as the barrel rests off- centre and also a few inches behind the muzzle (the second dark mark further up the barrel channel):

Repeat the above steps again and again until the bedding is satisfactory. No.4s are quite easy; SMLEs in new forends can take twenty or more assembly cycles to line everything up correctly.

gblacksmith
07-01-2011

Originally Posted by Thunderbox
forend should return to its former bedding, ie good fit all around the receiver and under the chamber/ free-float up to the muzzle/ slight barrel down pressure onto front of forend.

How is the down-pressure applied? A shim between barrel and handguard?

newcastle
07-01-2011

OK take it back a step. There you have an example where the barrel is set sideways. At that point, where the rest of it looks good, what is the next step?

Thunderbox
07-01-2011

Originally Posted by gblacksmith
How is the down-pressure applied? A shim between barrel and handguard?

You have to remove wood (a tiny scraping, usually) from under the chamber and front of the receiver, so that the whole barrelled action tilts downward - thus causing the end of the barrel to press down on the end of the forend.

Originally Posted by newcastle
OK take it back a step. There you have an example where the barrel is set sideways. At that point, where the rest of it looks good, what is the next step?

It depend upon what you actually see, eg:

1. if the barrel lies parallel to the barrel channel for its whole length, then the dark patch may just indicate a high point in the wood (especially if its new forend with a rough cut channel). Sanding down the high point will cause the barrel to rest somewhere else - hopefully on the centreline.

2. If the barrel appears to run towards the touching point, ie not parallel to the barrel channel, then this may indicate one side of the forend rear end (where it lies against the butt socket) is too high/low. Generally, the opposite side need to be filed down a touch, so that the barrel and action aren't pointed to one side.

3. The forend itself may have a warp at the end - very common. If its a mild warp and the forend is a keeper (eg numbered to the rifle), then the barrel channel can be relieved asymmetrically in order to let the barrel run straight. If the warp is too bad, then the handguards and front band will not sit properly without a corresponding amount of custom shaping.

newcastle
07-01-2011

Clarifictaion, if point 2. barrel is lying slightly to the RIGHT of the channel as in the picture, it seems to me that I should releive the RIGHT side on the forend where it contacts the butt socket - correct?

Thunderbox
07-02-2011

Originally Posted by newcastle
I should releive the RIGHT side

To clarify, it's either the flat against the butt socket on the same side, or the recoil face on the opposite side.

Trouble is, adjusting either of these two surfaces can slacken off the overall firmness of the receiver/forend fit, so you have to go very carefully. If the forend is clearly not original to the rifle, its also advisable to check that something else isn't pushing the forend to one side - e.g the charger bridge on a No1, or the rear handguard retaining ring on a No.4.

Demo
07-02-2011

Here's a one I did earlier today.

jmoore
07-02-2011

Originally Posted by Demo
Here's a one I did earlier today.

Milled/routered in recesses? Or just avoiding stress concentrations... Not sure it that applies to wood so much.

Demo
07-02-2011

It's how Lithgow was strengthening its recoil lugs in the late 20s. It's just a nice looking job I thought I'd show.

tbonesmith
07-03-2011

Originally Posted by Demo
Here's a one I did earlier today.

Did you route it out using a template and tracing collar? If so can I see a pic of how you mounted it?... Or is there a Dremil involved?

Demo
07-03-2011

Sorry I was being a little smart. This is not my job but how Lithgow tried to improve its recoil lugs in the late 20s. This sort of thing is not often seen because rifles made in this period retaining the forend from new manufacture are fairly scarce. I'm sure the majority of you know that anyway. I don't think it helped much.

tbonesmith
7-03-2011

Gives me ideas anyway, I'd like to make a router jig to do these cutouts, and that looks like an ideal shape, still to save time you'd have to be able to easily make the male piece too... Hmmm...

Rumpelhardt
07-03-2011

Some what related but not exactly. Just wondering why the copper recoil blocks were not used on the No.4 rifles? It seems to me with my very limited knowledge that this would help strengthen this area.

jmoore
07-03-2011

Originally Posted by Demo
how Lithgow tried to improve its recoil lugs

No, I really haven't seen that before! Or maybe I just forgot - which is altogether possible. So, don't assume any of us have seen it all - I don't think it's possible!

Brian Dick
07-04-2011

The little copper plates were only fitted on Australian rifles stocked with coachwood and Queensland maple because the wood itself is softer than most North American and European hardwoods making it more prone to breakage. It wasn't necessary for No.4 production as they were normally stocked in beech, walnut or birch.

Demo
07-04-2011

Lithgow did also install the plates into English rifles that came into Australian service also.

Peter Laidler
07-05-2011

Barbarossa asks/suggests that this fitting of draws article should be incorporated into the knowledge library. It already IS in the library Barbarossa, complete with pictures, written by me about a year or so ago! I suggest fitting wood dowels too but that's because during my long apprenticeship, we were taught that a glued wood patch on a rifle should be reinforced with hardwood pegs. This is because of the heat generated and the oily nature of the wood.

As for the Australian copper blocks, well, Brian has explained that but in all honesty, we never saw them on those remaining UK Military No.1 rifles, but as any chippie (or cabinet maker) will confirm... (Can you pass your pro comments here TBone) will agree, the notion that you can keep the copper blocks secure with a standard 1/4" or so long, thin wood screw down the grain of the fore- end is flawed practice. The best that can be said is that the screw would hold the blocks in place while the fore-end was replaced... where they'd be held secure afterwards.

Those copper blocks might spread the load over a wider but narrower area. But in any case SO marginally as to be incalculable. Think about it... what's the difference between the load being taken directly on the wood or on the wood via copper blocks? Just my view.

If it was my SMLE I'd get rid of the block screws (they're always stripped...) and patch the fore-end exactly as we show, with a block of hardwood.