Thread: Dimensions of Ishy Screw
Retrieved: 06/06/2014

I did a search and found out alot about the Ishy screw but didnt find out the dimensions of it. Ive got a 1952 RFI No.1 Mk3 with the Ishy screw but when I got it there was no Ishy screw in it. So I've pretty much just got a hole there.

I would like to put a screw there to fill the hole and was wondering if anybody knew the length and width of the Ishy screws or where I can find one. I'm not adept enough to do fill the hole with a wood dowel like I've read on here.

Peter Laidler
04-23-2013

Do yourself a favour Long Rifle... Even if YOU'RE not proficient enough to plug the hole with a hardwood dowel, there will be someone within 100 yards of you that WILL be proficient enough.

It's a bit like nailing the number plates to your lovely 1945 car when with a bit of thought, you could do a better job by using double sided Permabond sticky-backed tape! NC is a big place...

LongRifle75
04-23-2013

True, Ill see if I can find somebody that can do it for me.

RobD
04-24-2013

Peter, you did a how-to-replace-an-Isahapore-screw-with-dowel post some time ago, but it doesn't seem to be among your archived articles. Can you (or Moderator?) re-post it - LongRifle might be reassured to see just how simple it seems to be. And as you point out, the glued dowel will provide plenty of strength, just like the screw did.

Ridolpho
04-24-2013

RobD: The article is still there in the collection of Capt. Laidler's contributions ("sticky threads"). And Longrifle75, as a fellow newcomer to this kind of work I would suggest you read said article a few times and seriously consider giving it a shot. After all, you already have the screw- hole through the forend so its not like you're putting a bit to untouched wood. As I attempt repairs on some forends I take comfort from the fact that most of the mistakes I make can be fixed. If you try to replace the screw you'll need to use one with the same size/thread pitch as the original or it may not work well.

RobD
04-24-2013

LongRifle, Peter's article is here:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - GETTING RID OF YOUR "Ishy" Screw (by Peter Laidler)

If I can clarify how I would do it - use Peter's pictures as a guide: Before you start, you will need from your local hardware store: white wood glue; 1/4 inch drill bit; 1/2 inch drill bit; 1/4 inch hardwood dowel; 1/2 inch straight wood plug cutter (not a tapered plug cutter).

Start by running the 1/4 inch bit right through the Ishy screw hole from one side so it comes out the other side. Then use the 1/2 inch drill bit to counter-sink a shallow hole on each side. the straight walls of the countersink only need to be about 1/8 inch deep. measure the length of 1/4 inch dowel you will need, bearing in mind to leave room either side for the 1/2 inch plugs.

Smear white wood glue on the correct length of 1/4 inch dowel and tap it into the hole. Use the 1/2 inch straight plug cutter to cut some plugs from a bit of scrap hardwood with similar colour and grain to the original wood. The plug should be about half an inch thick. Smear the side of the 1/2 inch countersink hole and the plugs with glue, and tap in the plugs so the grain lines up with the grain of the fore-end.

Next day or the day after, when the glue is completely, completely dry, gently shave down the plugs and then smooth with very fine sand paper. Use linseed oil or whatever you prefer to finish.

Ridolpho
04-24-2013

Further to RobD's comments, I've found (in my lumber store) the size of dowels to be all over the place. You might want to buy the dowel first then punch some trial holes in scrap with your bit to see if it's a good fit. If the dowel is too large you can easily sand it a bit. If it's too small you'll need to obtain a variety of bits to find something that works. I bought one of those el-cheapo sets with 250 bits which gives an incredible range of slightly different sizes. You want a reasonable interference fit but, obviously, you don't want to pound something in that's too large!

jmoore
04-24-2013

Thanks guys, I think I'll study it and do some dry runs and if I'm comfortable with it I'll give it a shot!

Ridolpho
04-24-2013

One tip that I can give from my very limited experience plugging these, I've only done one, is that you dont want your large plug to be too tight or it can turn on its way in and then the grain wont' line up. Take your time though it is a very easy repair and it willlook great when you are done.

LongRifle75
04-26-2013

I've just got to find wood that will match, because the wood on the rifle is pretty dark.

Ridolpho
04-26-2013

LongRifle75: With time and oil the colour contrast will fade plus dowels and plugs look pretty nice - a sign of old school craftsmanship. I recently bought a P14 with at least 5 patches in it largely because of the patch work which is amazing. You could try some dark walnut penetrating stain on your light coloured dowels and that might help.

flying pig
04-26-2013

You would be amazed at how dark the light coloured dowels will turn with even just a little bit of RLO. I've been working on a No.1 MkIII* wood set for about a month now and you can't hardly see the dowels for how dark they are.

villiers
04-27-2013

Still, I would like to see what the original screw really looks like.

Peter Laidler
04-27-2013

The one I took out of an old fore-end looked like something from a Dracula film! A real old rusty, alightly bent thing that looked almost hand made. We had a spec for the screw... I think it was a 2" long No 8, countersunk, flat, slot head, wood screw that didn't go right through the fore-end. To be honest, going right through the fore-end would seem to partially defeat the object really.

RobD
04-27-2013

Oops, Peter is dead right - I was thinking of the Ishapore bolts I've seen on Indian SMLEs which go right through a-la Frankenstein... if the screw doesn't come out the other side, your repair shouldn't either - just take the 1/4 drill bit down as far as you think correct, glue in the dowel, and use the 1/2 inch plug only on one side.

Sorry for that.

Peter Laidler
04-27-2013

Pulled this from a scrap Ishapore forend. 1.61" long with a blunted tip, 0.19" shank dia. and 0.39" head dia. The screw went completely through and I think the tip was cut off after installation.

Warren
04-27-2013

Screw size is #10

Ridolpho
04-27-2013

See what I mean about hand made...

LongRifle75
04-28-2013

This is what Ive got to work with.

Ridolpho
04-28-2013

LongRifle75: That wasn't an Ishapore screw but a cross-bolt used to to strengthen the forend along with wire wrapping for grenade launching. You can see the evidence of the wire wrap. Were it mine I'd be tempted to but a bolt back and find out how to replicate the wire wrap as well as buy a cup grenade launcher. It would make for a correct restoration of an interesting rifle that would still be perfectly usable.

LongRifle75
04-28-2013

Yeah I noticed where the wrapping used to be but thought that the cross bolt and Ishy screw were the same thing.

Peter Laidler
04-29-2013

I agree with Ridolpho there. Revert it back to an EY rifle. I detail how to replace the copper wire binding somewhere. The nut and bolt were 1/4" or 0BA steel shank. Both acceptable alternatives.

Steve H. in N.Y.
04-29-2013

Longrifle75, is there a "GF" stamped on top of the receiver and/or barrel?

LongRifle75
05-05-2013

I tore it apart today and didnt see a "GF" on it.

Steve H. in N.Y.
05-13-2013

Later Indian grenade firing rifles normally have a big GF stamp. It looks like your rear handguard has been replaced (no wire marks) and that makes me wonder if the forend is also from a different rifle. The serial number under the forend may answer that question, if it's still visible.

LongRifle75
05-13-2013

The serial number on the barrell or on the wood?

Ridolpho
05-13-2013

LongRifle75: Steve H is referring to the one on the wood - underside, muzzle end. Likely to be very faint but it may be different from the barrel / action body numbers which, hopefully, match. If different it probably means yours isn't an EY rifle.

LongRifle75
05-13-2013

Yeah I looked underneath and saw a faint number underneath where the rear sight would be but it didnt look like the number on the bolt or the barrel. I think what Ill do is try to find a good set of wood for it. I got to looking at the wood now that its torn apart and its in pretty poor shape. It also looks like the rifle has been fired with the Cosmoline still on it...