Tricks when using a Fred Cornell wad punch

Retrieved: 08/23/2016
Last Post: 07/12/2010

I recently listed several bags of over powder wads for sale on this site. These came with a bunch of BPCR stuff I purchased in a single lot. Each bag contains at least 1000pcs of wads, which is the standard quantity sold by several suppliers, Walters Wads being the most well known. Considering the amount of work required in making wads using a hand punch and hammer (I’ve done it several years ago), the commercial pre-cut wads are a steal. Therefore, many of you reading this no doubt have purchased one of Fred Cornell’s very well made and excellent loading press punches to make your wads from various material including sheets of vegetable fiber and poly (LDPE). I happen to have one each for 40 and 45 caliber and have used them extensively. So what am I leading up to here? I just thought I pass along a neat trick I came up with when punching wads using a Cornell punch.

Those of you with a Cornell punch have probably struggled with how to contain the wads as they fall out of the top of the punch. I've tried various techniques including taping a plastic bag over the punch head (not much room to do this), stretching a wide mouth balloon over the punch head, which, by the way, works pretty well. Of course you have to tear open the full balloon to dump out the wads, but so what, balloons are cheap.

Another trick I stumbled on when I last used my Cornell punch a few months ago was forcing a sort piece of rubber automotive water/coolant hose over the punch head. I just happen to have a few pieces of 1" OD, 5/16" ID hose in my automotive repair stuff and figured I'd give it a try. With no problem at all, it easily stretched enough to slide over the punch head and stayed with place with a tight friction fit. So then I punch away until wads start to appear in the top hole of the hose or when 1 or 2 fall out when I’m not paying close attention. At this point it's easy to pull the hose off and dump the contents in a plastic sandwich bag. If more wads are needed, reinstall the nose and punch away.

Another related hint, don't make the hose too long when you're punching out wads for 38 or 40 caliber. Being much smaller than the hose ID, they will jam up inside the hose now and then. A short hose (3" to 4" long) works much better than a longer one and still holds plenty of wads before having to empty it. Plus a shorter hose is convenient to store in the same box as the punch.

Kurt
Mar 03, 2009

Here you go Wayne, almost fool proof.

white owl
Mar 03, 2009

Do you notice, when using the Cornell punch (may be true with other punches too) that one side of the wad is slightly wider than the other?

I use only .060" LDPE, and it's definitely noticeable.

Back in the 1990s, Merrill Martin (with the NECO Company) did a whole lot of experimenting using wads (he called them "P-wads") and wrote extensively about it in Precision Shooting magazine. He said he found that you should always insert the wad with the larger end down (so it's on top of the powder).

I haven't experimented to see if it makes any difference, but I accepted Merrill's results and always insert my wads that way.

Just thought I'd pass this on.

TexasMac
Mar 03, 2009

Excellent idea but it doesn't work for me as I have a Redding turret press and mount the punch in one of the open die stations. I'd have to remove all the other dies to use your approach. But it'll sure work for others. Thanks.

White Owl,
I do the same, but did not remember where I head about it until you mentioned NECO. If I remember correctly, with the larger diameter side down the wad is more effective in sealing gas blow-by.

gussy
Mar 04, 2009

Ever punch out a few out of a beer can?? Is that legal to use in matches??

Kurt
Mar 04, 2009

Gussy.
http://www.corbins.com/bgk-1.htm

These work good but I don't know if they would be classified as a gas check or not for the NRA shoots.

But they sure do the job.

DRCook
Mar 04, 2009

White Owl,
If you look at most stampings you will see that same effect. One side is where the punch started to cut the material, and the other side is where the material fractured and broke out. A bunch of years ago I built stamping dies. Some die designs had ultra close tolerances to help combat that effect.

The punches on these (when new) are sharpened with a slight concave shape as opposed to being flat. The high points of that concave surface help to start a "shearing action" which does cut down a bit on the fracturing and helps make it easier to use. A true flat sharpened punch takes a lot more energy to get the cut going.

As a general rule, I have always seen the thicker the material being stamped, the bigger the fracture amount.

These punches are really just a variation on a punch press die. I really like mine.

TexasMac
Mar 04, 2009

Hi Kurt,
Now that I've seen your approach I'm real disappointed I can't use it.

Actually, once upon a time, I had a passing thought about picking up a couple of the real cheap Lee single-station presses and permanently mounting a punch in each, but that would only take up more storage or loading bench area.

TexasMac
Mar 04, 2009

Gussy & Kurt,
I've been wondering about aluminum wads myself, especially after reading the recent article by Paul Mattthews in The Single Shot Exchange. Paul has a lot more experience than I, but I don't always agree with his interpretations of his data. In this case I believe his comments have some merits as I seem to have better success with HDPE over LDPE. Therefore it stands to reason, at least my reasoning, that aluminum may work as well or better. And the typical Coke or beer can wall thickness is around .004" to .005" thick, leaving additional room for powder. I may even try layering 2 or 3 layers.

I’m kinda surprised that the subject of aluminum wads has not been brought up before. I did a search on this forum and a couple of others and couldn’t find anything. I even ran a search on the archives of the old Shooters.com forum. One thread popped up but it was not worth reading or posting here.

I don't see why the NRA rules would prohibit the use of aluminum wads if HDPE or LDPE are acceptable. I doubt a flat wad of any material would be classified as a gas check, but what do I know.

Gussy, since you brought up the subject, you've been assigned to obtain a NRA ruling on the issue. Please post the results here.

gussy
Mar 05, 2009

Kurt, I do like the Corbin approach. Might have to try that!

T Mac, I emailed the NRA. IF I get a reply I'll post it. I asked about a "metal wad", NOT attached or placed in contact with the bullet. A few pieces of news print between IS non contact.

TexasMac
Mar 05, 2009

Gussy,
I'm sure gonna read the small print if I ever buy a used car from you. I sure hope they go for it.

Kurt
Mar 05, 2009

Gussy
This is not Corbin idea, this goes back to the mid 1800s.

gussy
Mar 05, 2009

The part about swaging on a cone shapes disc and forming the edge must be theirs, or those old boys were into it a lot more than I thought.

I hope to get some free time later this year and build a swage setup. That will be one of the things I try. I liked the idea of "up to 1400 without lube or leading". I have a couple of rifles that seem to hold onto lead real well. I think I've cured one and will sart on the other this summer.

Kurt
Mar 05, 2009

Well Gussy I just saw a few on the shelf if you want to see what they will do.

I haven't swaged any for a few years and they are not all the same length or weight and they are made for a rifle with a lot of free bore and the original chambers.

The bullets don't have a bore riding section, so they have to be seated in the case at the end of the radius is you don't have free bore.

gussy
Apr 05, 2009

OK, after a wait of a month or so the NRA did reply about metal wads.

Referred me to 2 others.

Well, 2 days later I DID get a reply to the question...

Rule 3.4 says "cast or swaged lead or lead alloy projectiles only; no jacketed or gas checks."

"there has never been an attempt to regulate wads"

Wads are NOT regulated so it would be legal.

TexasMac
Jul 12, 2010

Hmmm...

So an inverted gas check used as a wad should be OK also. This has been touched on in other threads, but I don't remember if anyone reported NRA comments on the subject.