Topic: Johnsons Paste Wax and Bullet Lubes

Retrieved: 12/19/2014
Last Post: 02/05/2008

Well, I searched this forum and several others and I swear (honest) I saw a thread somewhere about using JPW as a lube or as an ingredient of a lube for BP and other moderate velocity rounds. Seems like there are two kinds I think: regular and the one with carnuba wax. I plead alzheimer on this one but would like to see some comments.

Ranch 13
February 03, 2008

Johnson's paste wax is for waxing your car. Bullet lubes such as those offered by Sagebrush, Spg, Lyman, Black Magic, and others are for lubricating bullets.

Car paint and barrels with bullets don't have much in common. So it's generally best to use the car wax to protect the finish on your automobile, and bullet lube to protect the barrel of a firearm.

Carlos El Hombre
February 03, 2008

Carnuba wax and Crisco make a fine bullet lube for BP.

Lars
February 03, 2008

I don't know anything in detail about Johnson Paste Wax for autos but, I do know that most (all?) auto waxes have abrasive compounds in them to remove oxidized paint, smashed bugs, road tar, etc. Some are fairly aggressive, some are quite mild. Don't think I would want any bullet lube to have any abrasives at all in it, not even for "lube-polishing" rough bores.

Carlos El Hombre
February 03, 2008

I have used the floor version of Johnson's, mainly for case lube for reforming brass and I did not detct any apparant abrasive. Experimented a bit as a bullet lube mixed with Crisco 50/50 worked fine but I have not used it enough to determine if there was any additional bore wear. I then stumbled onto a 20 lb block of pure carnuba which works well when mixed with somthing to soften it as in its natural state it is almost like plastic it is so hard.

Lou Graham
February 03, 2008

I haven't tried it for ammo making but if you head for the Auto Zone to get some wax -- read the label. Some has polishing agents and some does not. The polishing agent is the slightly gritty stuff that may not work so well for your ammo.

Lars
February 03, 2008

Pure or nearly pure carnauba wax is an excellent protector surface, often used in museums. Many of us have long used it as a protective coating on metal parts of guns, etc. What I have used for lots of very fine polishing and long term protection of metal surfaces is an auto carnauba wax with very fine abrasive. It nicely polishes metal surfaces, just like any fine abrasive, removing incipient corrosion, and the wax gives that nicely polished surface long lasting protection. I don't even take my old guns hunting any more without a fresh or still intact coating of carnauba wax.

Professor Marvel
February 03, 2008

Greetings and Salutations -

The basic JPW (non-automotive) as purchased from a hardware store has been used to good effect by shooters of lead alloy bullets with smokeless powder.

They relate that they do not fill the grooves as with a normal lube, but coat the entire bullet with the melted product, and allow it to dry and harden. This is not so much a "lube" as a "coating." According to reports they do not add further lube. Practitioners relate that they are able to drive lead alloy bullets up to 1600 fps (pistol) and 2200-2300 fps (rifle) with no leading in a clean smokeless barrel. I cannot find my bookmarks (I had catastrophic computer issues) but one can google "jpw cast bullets." I have no experience with the product, only what I have read.

Remember: "If It's on the Internet, it must be True!" LOL.

I was looking into this at one time, with the idea making this coating a first step, followed by a soft BP lube in the traditional fashion. However, discussions with others, including SteelHorse Bailey, and perusal of many posts by our esteemed colleague Dutch Bill reminded me of the complicated hi- temp chemical reactions that occur within the barrel of a BP rifle. That and the vast experience of other's experimentation have convinced me to essentially abandoned this avenue.

But do not let this stop others from experiencing things on their own!

Yellowhouse Sam
February 03, 2008

Just to clear it up a little, I am talking about floor wax... not for cars. The floor wax has a lot of beeswax and it and one type has carnuba added.

Ranch 13
February 03, 2008

Floor wax, car wax, it matters little it's still not bullet lubricant. Most of the time any more when a thread gets started about jpw as bullet lube the poster is wondering why his barrel filled with lead in such a short time.

Bullet lubes are readily available commercially, there's a ton of good homemade lube recipes at www.bpcr.net.

Dutch Bill
February 03, 2008

Carnuba wax is rapidly being replaced by several of the petroleum derived microcrystalline waxes. Butchers Wax used to be Carbnuba. It is now based on a microcrystalline wax and not nearly as good as when it was based on Carbnuba.

I use Johnson Paste Wax on office furniture. It is now based on a microcrystalline wax, rather than carnuba.

About the only product line that you see still based on carnuba wax is certain high priced auto waxes. So I am now doing office furniture with auto wax rather than "furniture polish".

With a carnuba wax you usually see them with odorless mineral spirits. Carnuba wax is a very hard wax and is dissolved in mineral spirits to make it into a paste form.

This carnuba wax comes from carnuba palm tree leaves. Found as a waxy coating on the leaves. The leaves being beaten to break the wax off the surface. Labor intensive and requires a labor pool willing to work for next to nothing.

Yellowhouse Sam
February 03, 2008

Thanks for the input, I was just very curious whether these 'rumors' had any substance. Never fear, I'll never use anything but SPG or its equivalent.

Dutch Bill
February 03, 2008

Forgot to get into this point.

You see old bullet lube formulas calling for bayberry wax or japan wax.

It is important to understand that these were not waxes of plant origin. Both were actually plant fats. Seed/berry coatings.

When they made the beeswax with bayberry or japan wax bullet lubes, as in the military .45-70 bp loadings they melted the beeswax and added the bayberry or japan wax. These were soluble in the melted beeswax. But as the beeswax cooled and solidified these plant fats were no longer soluble in the beeswax. So they came out of solution in the wax as minute globules uniformly dispersed throughout the mass of beeswax.

If you place some of this lube between two sheets of mylar you get to see how it worked as a bullet lube.

When the bullet obturated, or bumped up, in the bore the pressure of the lube would cause the plant fat globules to be pushed to the surface of the wax. Under pressure the wax would exude from the beeswax which acted as little more than a carrier for either of the two plant fats which would then coat the bore. The beeswax acting more akin to a carrier and applicator in the bore.

The problem with lubes that actually use a type of wax as a lube generally have problems with at what point in temperature does the wax melt. Most waxes have a very narrow temperature range between where they simply soften and where they melt. Beeswax is one such wax. Difference between where it softens and where it liquifies is only a few degrees.

Miestro_jerry
February 03, 2008

S.C. Johnson's paste wax is Carnuaba, about 7% and the rest is parraffin. Mix in some beeswax and you have decent bullet lube. This the furniture polish, not the car stuff.

Pigeonroost Slim
February 05, 2008

Its got to be way less expensive and very probably far more effective to use a basic bullet lube recipe of common inexpensive ingredients. Bees wax is getting more and more costly, but the soy substitutes are pretty dern good. El Cheap-O hydrogenated shortening and generic veggie oil in a 50:40:10 ratio and you gotta expect better result than paste wax.