BP, Static in powder measure. Has it ever happened?
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I've read all the info pro and con about static, BP, and a plastic powder measure.
I'm not wanting to get into all the electrical egineer stuff about how it could or couldn't happen.
My personal position is that its mighty unlikely but with my face 6" from a pound of BP, I'll err on the side of caution.
My question is HAS it ever happened, not could it.
Anybody know if there is any documented case of BP igniting or exploding from a plastic powder measure??? I' ain't changing my reloading practice either way, just wondered if its a theory or actually has happened
Dutch Bill
January 05, 2007
Nobody has ever documented such an incident. Lyman looked into a number of what were claimed to be static explosions in powder measures. They refuse to comment in public are far as I have been told.
I am not a fan of plastic powder hoppers for another reason. Ran into the same problem with a plastic adjustable powder measure sold by T/C.
When the powder is poured from a container through dry air it builds up a very slight charge on the surfaces of the powder grains. This charge causes the grains to repell each other. The measure then throws light charges and the actual weight gets erratic. To me it is a difference in measurement accuracy between the plastic hoppers and the metal hoppers.
Abilene
January 05, 2007
I think that if BP has ever blown up in a plastic powder measure, then it has been extremely rare. But there have been a few reports of BP igniting from various sources, most likely static.
If you care to click on the link to my BP loading article at BP for CAS and then scroll down a little more than halfway through the article until you get to "static concerns". I have listed about 5 instances of BP explosions that I have been made aware of in the last 7 or 8 years. Only one of them occurred while loading on a regular loading press (rock chucker) with a regular plastic powder measure and that one was with pyrodex, not BP. As it happens, I saw the pard who it happened to (G Wiz, formerly Arizona G Wiz) at the SASS convention a few weeks back and we talked about it some more. He isn't sure, but he thinks it may have been the shearing of a grain rather than static.
There are folks who will point out websites that describe experiments that attempt to ignite BP with sparks without success, and then explain why (grains of BP coated with carbon, which conducts the electricity around the grain). Those experiments are interesting but they are not real-world. The variables (waveform of the discharge, potential difference versus current, impedances, types of powder, coatings on every grain, path to ground or absence thereof, height "above ground", etc.) are endless in the real world. Nevertheless, I agree that setting off BP with static is more difficult than we used to be told, but in my opinion it is not impossible.
A lot of folks are loading BP with regular plastic powder measures with no problems, and a lot of others are using measures made for BP or dipping the powder by hand just because they don't want to tempt fate. As for myself, I'll just say that I use several different methods of loading but I don't load BP at all on really dry days (like when you touch a doorknob and get a spark). Fortunately around here it doesn't get that dry very often.
Pettifogger
January 05, 2007
Unfortunately its dry here in Arizona all the time. What's interesting in Abilene's post is the incident with Pyrodex. Hodgdon has now certified Pyrodex and 777 as safe to use in any powder measure. I use Dillon measures, but have put aluminum hoppers on them.
Bum Steer
January 05, 2007
Great info. Thanks. As stated earlier I'm not a into tempting fate. As a kid I blew up my bedroom, burned down our garage and started about 100 acres of field on fire, all playing with various forms of "homemade devices". With my track record and being a little older but not much wiser, I'll play it safe but it was bugging whether there were documented cases. Kind of like the too light charge of smokeless that blows up hundreds of guns but can't be duplicated by powder mfg, even when they try.
Yakima Red
January 05, 2007
Better safe than sorry. What does it hurt to take the precautions?
Lucky Ed Pepper
January 05, 2007
You have just as much chance of being hit by a meteor in Toms River N.J. than one blowing up!
I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure all the time for BP.
But I like living dangerously and don't expect to live forever.
Driftwood Johnson
January 05, 2007
If the same question had been asked a year ago, there would have been 10 posts by now loudly deriding the myth of static electricity and Black Powder. But the first few answers are reasoned and moderate in their views.
I actually started thinking this had become a kinder gentler place.
But I see the self appointed mythbusters are still just as strident as ever.
I know a little bit about Static Electricity. I won't bore you with the details. I prefer to err on the side of caution and either dip my powder from a cup, or use my Lyman BP measure.
Lucky Ed Pepper
January 05, 2007
Don't use an electronic scale... Static Electricity.
Qball
January 05, 2007
Found this article over at the Brimstone Pistoleros site" http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/Articles/staticelectricity.html LINK 404
Pettifogger
January 05, 2007
If you're using a Lee dipper, its plastic.
Hedley Lamarr
January 05, 2007
Hey Ed, ya mean one of these?
wayne
January 06, 2007
For what it's worth... I had a buddy that walked the farm fields with a Hawken rifle to shoot ground hogs. He told me he'd been carrying his powder in a leather covered plastic lined wine bota. I advised to stop that. He said he'd been doing it for two months and had no problem. The next time he saw me he said he wished he had listened to me. He walked out into the pasture a ways and a pound of blackpowder in the bota blew. It burned him under the arm and on the hip pretty bad. Burned a hole in his jeans. He isn't a smoker. Didn't get struck by lightening. The bota was closed with the plug. ect. ect. ect. Wonder what made that powder blow? Well he wasn't using a powder measure at the time. It was brass anyway. Anyway the guy stopped using the wine bota for carrying powder and got a powder horn.
Driftwood Johnson
January 08, 2007
Quote
If you're using a Lee dipper, its plastic.
Of course it is. And all other things being equal, static charges are proportional to the surface area of the static generator. A Lee dipper has a tiny surface area when compared to the hopper on a regular powder measure. The static charge a tiny piece of plastic like a dipper can generate is proportionately much smaller than the charge a plastic powder hopper can generate.
No, I don't use wrist straps, static dissapative surfaces, or ground wires when reloading with BP. But I also have chosen not to dump BP into large plastic hoppers. You do as you think best.