Golden Powder

Retrieved: 12/20/2014
Last Post: 11/15/2010

Name of composition: Golden Powder

Composition Type: Lift powder/propellant with other possible usages as a black powder replacement.

Creator: Do not remember.

Color/Effect:

The Composition: (by weight)

Potassium Nitrate 60%

Ascorbic Acid/Vitamin C 40%

Any Precautions/Incompatabilities: None that I am aware of.

Precedure/Preparation: Weigh out 12 grams of KNO3 and 8 grams of Vitamin C and dissolve in 25mL of water. Heat the solution until boiling. After 10-15 or so minutes of heating the solution should begin to get viscous and change from colorless to a golden like color. Make sure that you constantly are stirring the solution as you do not want the solution to char. When the solution has the consistancy of macaroni and cheese turn off heat*. When the solution cools it will become a very hard and brittle mass. The solid golden cake can be crushed with a motar and pestile safely and easily to a golden powder.

I cannot compare this mix to standard 75:15:10 BP as I have never been able to make a BP of acceptable quality. You will have to experiment to find the right amount for subsitution. However golden powder makes a great lift powder and propellant. I made a toy cannon (cardboard tube with a hole for fuse and a plugged end) and was able to propell and small projectile ~25 feet. Golden powder could be used to make fuse too but I think subsituting some vitamin C for binder and sugar would be a good idea(to slow down burn rate). Another usage for golden powder is sulfurless primer for chlorate based stars.

Properly made golden powder burns with a woosh. If your golden powder doesn't produce a woosh sound then... Your golden powder is still too wet or you didn't heat for long enough.

* Since I have prepared golden powder before I usually stop the heat a few minutes before the macorini and cheese "phase".

More info can be found at rec.pyro http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/813-golden-powder/

artificier
19 November 2006

Yeah its a good homogenous powder! But first, how do I buy pure ascorbic acid? And second, do you have the burning VOD?

DeAdFX
19 November 2006

Ascorbic acid can be found at vitamin stores, drug store/pharmacy, GNC or natural food stores... If you can find ascorbic acid for $20/3lb (not including shipping) then you are set. You can find online sources via froogle.

I do not have any velocity of detonation vigures.

artificier
19 November 200

OK thank DeADFX! ascorbic acid its actually not really expensive,but the KNO3 its very expensive for me. 5$/100g! Will any other oxidizer work with vitamin C?

ltf
20 November 2006

I saw in other places that you should react the vitamin C with NaHCO3 in order to make it natural, is it better?

A nice thing after making gp put the wet powder on a paper, after it'll dry you'll have a crackling paper.

Rocket007
20 November 2006

This powder isn't good enough for me. It is only good for smoke bombs.

shadopyro
20 November 2006

Rocket, that might be because you got your vitamin C from the tablets from a pharmacy. These tablets contain a lot of fillers, mainly cellulose, as I realised this when i tried it a while ago.

artificier
20 November 2006

It's the real recipe of the golden power:

60.54% Potassium nitrate

37.34% Ascorbic acid (can be found in Vitamin C pills)

2.12% Potassium bicarbonate (optional, sodium bicarb should work also)

procedure:

Pour the powders into a beaker and add the water. You'll probably need to heat the solution to get all of the powder to dissolve, or you can add more water. I heat it because I hate waiting for that extra water to evaporate. When the powders are completely dissolved you can filter out the binder if you used pills, or you can just let the water evaporate. Now pour the solution into a shallow pan and put it in a toaster oven and run it at about 220*C. You can leave it in the beaker and put it in the regular oven if you want, but I think it's easier to scrape it out of the shallow pan. Anyway keep an eye on it as the water evaporates, it will turn brown in color. Once you think all the water has evaporated, take out a small bit of it and let it cool, then squeeze it in your fingers and see if it's moist. If it's moist, leave it, if it's dry, take it off. Now scrape the stuff out of the pan and let it cool.

DeAdFX
20 November 2006

artificier, on Nov 20 2006, 04:51 AM, said:
other oxidizer work with vitamin C?

Yeah other oxidizers will work. I have tried potassium chlorate and Ammonium Perchlorate. I just mixed the oxidizers with ascorbic acid as powders. I was to afraid to heat the chlorate and ascorbic acid in solution due to fear of an explosion.

Potassium Chlorate/ascorbic acid burns fast (between KClO3 sugar and BP) while Ammonium Perchlorate/Ascorbic acid burns slower (like a flare). I think it might be possible to safely make Ammonium Perchlorate golden powder and possibly Potassium Perchlorate golden powder without to much worry of an explosion.

@ITF I don't think the bicarb/carbonate is really necessary but whatever floats your boat.

Rocket007
20 November 2006

I buy 99,99% ascorbic acid.

I think it sucks. But that's only my thinking.

Pretty green flame
20 November 2006

I know people who use it with great success, I have also seen shells fired in person with gloden powder and they flew around the same height as my BP propelled ones. The two downsides I see is the price of ascorbic acid and the fact that golden powder is hygroscopic. Other than that it's cool.

Mumbles
20 November 2006

Golden powder also has much less of a flame, so if you had comets on your shells, I'd suggest lighting them with the quickmatch instead of relying on the lift gases. I'd probably crossmatch the time fuse directly with the quickmatch just to be safe.

Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

bubbelpower
28 November 2006

Is GP preforming best as powder or granules?

Salute
28 November 2006

Better is powder and it must be completely dry. Wet burns much more slowly so it's useless.

I have great experience with GP. I have made one shell and one mine and both worked quite good(amost like BP). Very big problem at golden powder is that it is hygroscopic. To dry it you must exposed it to 60-80 degrees for half hour.

fizeau
29 November 2006

Tonight I did have to test this Golden Powder. I buyed a bunch of vitamin C (cheaply available in the next door drugstore) and put it on my stove. Comp as posted but I doubled the quantity: 24 KNO3, 16 vitamin C, 50 ml water.

The macaroni and cheese 'phase' occurred after 17 minutes. I got a pale orange product, by much stirring while cooling it became a fine corned powder, the smell was almost like in a bakery.

I didn't think a "woosh" would be a problem so I lit a small portion with a match. Oh boy, that was violent!

mguy
29 November 2006

That's fast, nice. Quite a bit of smoke so I'm guessing it could be used as a propellant.

Mumbles
30 November 2006

Amount of smoke has no correlation with propellant usage. Actually, the more smoke the worse the propellant. Only the hot gases propel, smoke is solid particles.

Chemguy
30 November 2006

I know, but looking at the formula of ascorbic acid, C6H8O6 or something, it's going to make CO2, and other gases depending on ratios etc.

Mumbles
30 November 2006

CO2 can just as easily be used to form K2CO3 as it can be to form gases. Trying to balance the equation is MUCH more indicative of propellant use of a relatively fast burning powder, rather than just assuming because it burns fast it will make a good propellant.

DeAdFX
30 December 2006

For anyone that cares... Titanium Powder or Titanium 90/6/4 alloy can be added to golden powder for an impressive show of sparks. I have not tried other elemental fuels like C/Mg/Al but I assume they would work too.

X
27 April 2007

Can't believe I didn't think of this earlier but...

Hmm, diluting slow black powder with golden powder averages burn rate while significantly improving flame envelope. I ignited 6 grams of 50/50. The mixture was a little slower burning than straight golden powder (5-15% maybe?). When the mixture burned I felt much more heat radiating than straight golden powder.

I guess this wouldn't be too bad of a mix for those who are stuck with mediocre grade charcoal (mesquite kind). This is better than using metals to make it burn slightly hotter

jaruletzu
28 April 2007

I used the Golden Powder formula since 2005. My chem teacher taught me about the procedure of making GP. It's good but not the best. For me, BP is the best way to lift a shell. Here in Romania I tried to buy smme KClO4 but here is not available. Can you offer me a chemical company name maybe in Europe, a good one. Maybe from Spain?

mormanman
01 May 2007

Can you use strontium nitrate?

Mumbles
01 May 2007

Use it for what? You really need to start specifying what you're looking for in your posts.

mormanman
01 May 2007

Can you use strontium nitrate for Golden Powder instead of KNO3...

DeAdFX
01 May 2007

I don't know to be honest. I have tried using Ammonium Nitrate but that didnt work. I ended up with a black sludge (and a faint smell of Nitrogen Oxides). I believe strontium nitrate is a little more reactive than Potassium Nitrate in solution. You might end up with a black tar and various strontium crap.

mormanman
02 May 2007

Well I tried it and I simplified the ratios and maybe that was the problem but I don't know... anyway it burns super slow with small sparks and goes out easy... it still maybe too wet I'll give it another day but it looks good for fuses.

DeAdFX
02 May 2007

Could you describe the procedure that you used to make the Sr(NO3)2 golden powder variant.

mormanman
03 May 2007

DeAdFX, on May 3 2007, 02:06 AM, said:
Could you describe the procedure

Sure but I think what I did wrong was I didn't simplify the water...well anyway:

1. I got some Sr(NO3)2 out of a road flare.

2. I measured out .3 lbs of Sr(NO3)2 and .2 lbs Ascorbic Acid/Vitamin C

3. I measured out the 25 ml. of water

4. Put it in a glass jar and cooked it over the stove

5. It was a little wet still so I let it dry for 2 or 3 day and it looks like tiny pieces of dark green/gray dirt.

mormanman
12 May 2007

Rocket007, on Nov 20 2006, 02:57 PM, said:
This powder isn't good enought for me. It is only good for smoke bombs.

I agree because I was really disapointed in it. DeAdFX flashed sort of and burned really fast my was crap to tell you the truth my smoke powder works better than it.

Do you have to cook the GP or just boil the water out?

DeAdFX
12 May 2007

You have to boil off all the water until you get the consistancy of macaroni and cheese and then continue heating for 5-10 minutes. If you don't know what macaroni and cheese is then keep boiling off the water until you get a goopie mass. Lower the heat and a bit and continue heating for 5-10 minutes. You should be able to produce some good golden powder

mormanman
14 May 2007

Oh man it was fun but my mom got made at me for making it inside (I didn't want to) and it was smelly. Does anyone know why it is called golden powder because mine was black and brown not golden, my first (crappy) batch was golden.

aquataur
01 March 2008

re: Creator: Do not remember.

Golden Power is also known as "Crimson Powder".

Look with a search engine and see who it is attributed to if you want to know.

crazyboy25
01 March 2008

Not quote I believe crimson powderis a different formula (it contains red iron oxide) thus making it red or "crimson.

kaizoku
07 November 2010

'jaruletzu', on 28 Apr 2007 - 05:06 AM, said:
company name maybe in Europe

Try http://www.americanpyrosupply.com/. They have lot of chemicals from oxidizers to metals and even dyes so give it an try. I almost forgot you will have to pay the shipping which isn't good for your bank account but aside from that they offer good service and pretty cheap chemicals compared to other suppliers.

Or you can always try ebay. (but do not expect too much from ebay)

Mumbles
07 November 2010

On their terms page, they all but outright say they don't ship chemicals internationally. You may need to find a new source.

kaizoku
08 November 2010

Then try pyrogate.eu they sell visco fuses, dyes, sulfur. http://www.colored-smoke.eu they sell kclo3 everything that is needed for make smoke bombs.

And they even ship to the whole world except for pyrogate.eu they ship to Europe only excluding of of the European countries. Here is an list of it http://www.pyrogate.eu/uploads/shipping_pyrogate.jpg and they provide good service.

jerronimo
15 November 2010

I still have no idea why you guys want to experiment with golden powder.

It's dangerously high explosive when heated for to long, has a limited shelf life because it's hygroscopic and has no place in pyrotechnics.