8 gauge copper wire .224" bullets

Retrieved: 08/22/2016
Last Post: 04/28/2011

I was talking to a friend who was attempting to make a "X" bullet using 8 gauge copper wire. My question is this...

Will the Corbin H dies take the pressure to 'square up' the copper before drilling? And is it really feasible?

Bullshop
04-08-2011

That is what Parker Ackley did to make controlled expansion bullets for his 228 Ackley mag. He did put a small amount of lead in the nose cavity though.

Red River Rick
04-08-2011

I have a Corbin Hydro press. Swaging pure copper in .224 diameter would be no problem for the Hydro press using "H" dies.

If you do the math, the Hydro press is capable of exerting over 400,000 lbs of pressure on a punch 0.224" diameter. Yes, you read it correctly, that's 400,000 lbs of pressure.

Ammosmith
04-09-2011

I'm using the CSP-2 press. I have already worked out drilling the hole with a 3/32" drill bit. I'll use either my Proxxon saw or my homemade core cutter to cut the wire then anneal it.

firefly1957
04-14-2011

I played with this just the other day. My press is a Lyman Orange Crusher with modified ram using what I think are pacific dies in .224.

Attempt one: Three 14 ga wires cut equally and swaged the wires would not fill together well and there were gaps between the wires I do not think they would stay together in flight, but have not considered loading them to test. Point formed well.

Attempt two was to place wires in a derimmed 22 case and swage this attempt looks a little better copper is lighter and the two bullets I made are 42 grs. still a gap in ogive between wires. I set these aside, maybe I will shoot them when I put my Rossi back together.

Why three wires in a jacket? I think they will open nicely even if they separate they will cut nicely and penetrate well. I have made 45 bullets this way using .185 lead wire with decent results in 45 ACP. Those three cores open and leave 3/4 Jacket in soft target (water wet paper) but stay together and penetrate deeply in hard target (Dry paper or wood)

Ammosmith
04-14-2011

I've heard that the tin in the copper wire prevents it from being annealed. Any one know about this?

Red River Rick
04-14-2011

Originally Posted by Ammosmith
Were would the tin come from?

We're talking pure copper wire, so there should be no tin involved.

Casting Timmy
04-14-2011

This is interesting to me, if I remember right from Hatcher's notebook. Wasn't one of the early problems with copper bullets the copper fouling? I think they tired different things to get rid of it, but ended up changing the jacket material in the end. I believe they also put some tin in the powder to keep the copper fouling down.

Has anyone shot these and how do they do with loading up the barrel?

xfoxofshogo
04-14-2011

What would just a solid piece of copper do? Can you shoot a solid piece? I know thay do it with brass.

Ammosmith
04-14-2011

I was going to use 8 gauge copper grounding wire. Home Depot stuff.

Casting Timmy
04-15-2011

Let us know how it goes, or if you post a video can you give us a link?

Ammosmith
04-15-2011

I'll make and test some prototypes and if it works I'll do a video on it.

elk hunter
04-15-2011

Barnes X bullets are solid copper with relief bands to lower the pressure required to push them through the bore of the rifle. Fouling was a problem with some of the early ones, that was the reason for the coated X bullet. They do expand and hold together well. Millions of jacketed rifle bullets have been made with copper tubing jackets and they work well, but can foul a bit more at higher velocity.

Ammosmith
04-15-2011

8 gauge wire was too small so I am attempting to use 4 gauge wire. It fits the core swage die just fine. I annealed the few I tried in the core swage die and it takes some pressure but doesn't feel too much It's stiffer to eject. I am planning on using a 3/32" drill bit to cut the point channel.

Ammosmith
04-15-2011

OK! New idea!

So... sitting in front of the press and looking at what the potentials are...

The wire as cut is just a little bit bigger than a core. So..

Why not use the copper wire as a core? Make it about 1/2 the length of a standard core and seat it into a RF jacket... then use a lead tip to form the point. This will do several things.

1, Allow a partition type of bullet but with real penetrating power on larger varmints... the tip expands and breaks off/away and the core punches through the target.

2, The jacket being brass... still prone to fouling can be moly coated.

3, Takes the step of drilling the hole in the copper to form the point.

What do you think?

HollowPoint
04-15-2011

Don't do it man! I'm telling you; don't do it!

It sound really danger-; OK, I'm just kidding. I actually hope you can get it to work.

Have you seen the price that those "Lead-Free" bullets are selling for? If you can make up your own "Lead-Free" rifle bullets that will put you one-up on the manufactures. And with lead slowly being phased out over time, making your own copper bullets is all the better.

I just wish that swaging equipment wasn't so darn expensive. I might be tempted to take up that hobby. Right now it's way out of reach of this semi- retired bullet caster.

I hope it works out well. I'll at least try to make up a jig to take a stab at making my own "Lead-Free" bullets.

ccook23
04-16-2011

Ive made .224 60gr from 4 AWG copper wire using Richard Corbin's Walnut Hill Press and dies.

Below is the link (sorry I dont know how to attach photos yet) showing the cut wire and the finished bullet. I did anneal the wire after each operation and I also drilled out the tip as well - but during point forming you are not left with at opening of course.

MIBULLETS
04-16-2011

How much force did it take compared to the ones made from rimfire cases?

Do you think if you drilled the hole bigger, you could make a hollow point?

ccook23
04-17-2011

It took a considerable more amount force when compared with using rimfire cases and lead cores, but if you have the patience and time and are careful I don't see making these bullets to be a problem - but its slower, I annealed the copper at least 3 times. Once after I cut the wire, then after I swaged the core, then again during the point forming process, I basically point formed 2 times (using the same die - I just had to adjust the point forming die twice) before the bullet was finished And of course you have to add time to drilling out holes.

I would say yes, if the hole was drilled bigger you could end up with a hollow point, the precision to get the hole perfectly centered and big enough would be the challenge.

lgvenable
04-25-2011

I Have access to a metallurgist who is also a shooter; I'll ask him on the proper alloy of copper, seems you might be able to find an alloy that will deform better than having to anneal 3 times. As you anneal you're lowering the tensile strength, so with the right alloy batta bing; you might not have to anneal.

We can also use matweb.com, they list alloys and properties, trick is you need to find the alloy being used in an application which will give you easy access, like wheel weights for lead-antimony.

Ammosmith
04-25-2011

I got 20 prototypes made up. I'll take some pics and post them. The points on some are uneven and I attribute that to the drilling process. I chucked the copper blank into the drill press and put the drill bit into the milling vise.

Ammosmith
04-27-2011

Alright! Here is the initial prototypes I made. Not perfect but it's a start. I got an idea of how to improve it greatly. Some of the points are uneven but this is a learning process.

Southern Son
04-28-2011

Ammosmith, those things are shaping up real nice. I have been following this thread very close and waited on every posting. I think that these show real promise. I would be interested is seeing any recovered from the dirt behind the target or any other media, for that matter. In the mean time, thanks for what you have posted, it has really given me some information to mull over in my mind.

Ammosmith
04-28-2011

Once I deem them safe to shoot at a quality that makes it worth while I a going to do a video series on this.

scrapcan
04-28-2011

It looks like you only need to use a meplat uniformer on those test projectiles. Something on the order of the following, maybe you can make something up to do the job.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=69503/pid=36562/Product/SINCLAIR_MEPLAT_TRIMMERS_22_CAL

Ammosmith
04-28-2011

I think the jacket is uneven on one side or the other. I have refined the drilling process in my head... now to test. I will try these on some 5 gallon buckets of water... I want to retrieve these. I have another experiment in the works.