Topic: Black mag'Xp is a True Substitute Black Powder
Retrieved: 12/12/2014
Last Post: 01/12/2010
http://www.emainehosting.com/blackmag/index.html
I received a telephone call this morning from Craig Sanborn, President of Blackmag Industries and had a long conversation with him about the composition of Black mag'Xp. Mr Sanborn answered every question that I had about the details of the powder in a factual manner with no PR hype, including:
* It is an ascorbic acid based powder with no ingredients used in the formulation of smokeless powders
* Black mag'Xp is a revised formulation of the old Black mag'3 ... different formulation and size of the granules - using improved ingredients - quality of the mix of the ingredients and with a coating of graphite fibers
* Mr Sanborn stated that velocities comparable to true black powder can be obtained using a 50% less powder charge. This could be an inducement to CAS shooters who like substitute powders as an offset to the price of the powder
* I asked him about shelf life of the powder ... he replied with proper storage, there will be no decay of the ascorbic acid (loss of velocity) as was the case with older versions of ascorbic acid powders because of the new revised formulation. He did say that the Black mag'Xp will turn from a gray color to a sand color after a period of storage time but that is due to their revised formulation. Again, no degradation of velocity of the powder with proper storage
* I asked him whether or not the powder fouling was corrosive. He stated they have tested the powder for a year and fouling is not corrosive
* He also offered that in 2010, with the decreased costs of ingredients due to the economy, the company will be putting 25% more powder in the cans and holding the purchase price
I suggested to Mr Sanborn, he should contact SASS and provide support that the new powder is a true substitute powder because their website states
Quote
SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) has welcomed and approved BlackMag
Powder in the fall of 1999
which was for the older version of Black mag.
So, there you have it... Black mag'Xp is a true ascorbic acid based substitute black powder... from the President of the Company!
Dutch Bill
December 03, 2009
This I have to see!
"True black powder" 50% less with his powder. He is going to match Swiss velocities with half as much powder?
Lars
December 03, 2009
Maybe they soaked that ascorbic acid in rocket fuel?
Uriah
December 13, 2009
Just remember that CAS black powder substitutes and NRA black powder substitutes are different deals.
Does the NRA still allow Pyrodex in BPCR shoots?
CAS, all they want is some smoke.
John Boy
December 13, 2009
Quote
Does the NRA still allow Pyrodex in BPCR shoots?
Read this... http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14620
And yes for Pyrodex.
Dutch Bill
December 18, 2009
I am waiting to see what the price is per pound.
A few years back I picked up a container of Black Mag 3 at Cabela's. Wife was with me. The sign said $29.95. The look I got from the wife was withering. She knew what I was paying for black powder at the time.
John Boy
December 18, 2009
Bill, if you order directly from them, its $58.90 for a 10oz can with HazMat and Shipping
https://emainehosting.secureserverdot.com/blackmag/buyme.html
Fingers McGee
December 21, 2009
Quote
$58.90 for a 10oz can with HazMat and Shipping
Best reason I can think of to NOT buy any. I can get 4 lbs of real BP for that.
Lars
December 22, 2009
Geezz, Hazmat + shipping and handling must make up about 1/2 of that price. Sounds like still another smokey powder intended for in-line muzzle loader crowd for once-a-year hunting and a few sight-in shots.
Ole Saddlebags
January 11, 2010
An interesting set of exchanges about BlackMag powder. I have tested this powder rather extensively in cartridge loads (.45 Colt). Yes, you can use about 50 to 60 percent of the black powder charge by volume as compared to black powder and obtain comperable results. This stuff is significantly hotter than 777. I found 60% to be the best match. The key to this is related to the pressure curve for the powder. It is a controlled burn powder so the pressure is continually building as the bullet travels up the barrel. Black powder and other substitutes peak quickly and then the pressure dissipates. The BlackMag pressure curve allows for higher velocities and a lower felt recoil.
If you buy one can the HazMat fee will eat you up. You can get the price down by buying six cans and the company will pay the HazMat fee for you. Buy it in even higher volumes and you can probably get a price break per can also. If you look at a price of $30 per can and considering the reduced load requirements, the cost is about one dollar per box higher than the other substitutes, such as 777. The clean up with this powder is nothing short of amazing. Plain water and one to two patches and you are done, pistol or rifle. I use Ballistol or Slip 2000 EWL to remove the residual moisture and lube. In addition, right after shooting I toss my brass in a can of water and vinegar (50/50 mix) for about an hour, and it comes clean and bright (ssuming it was such before shooting). The ease of clean-up is the main attraction to me. This powder has the least hassle of any substitute I have ever used, and I like my hobbies to be hassle free. An extra dollar a box is worth it to me, but everyone will have to place their own value on the use of this powder.
I have also spent a decent amount of time on the phone with Craig Sanborne, and John Boy is right. He is open and honest about his powder. John boy heard the same thing I heard from Craig and my testing confirmed what he said.
Uriah, you said that all CAS is interested in is smoke when it comes to black powder substitues. This is not entirely correct. The powder can not have a dual base, such as Blackhorn 209. Blackhorn is specifically not allowed in CAS shoots. The base of the powder is considered as well as the smoke, just to clear the air (so to speak).
Well folks, have fun shooting and make lots of smoke. As Darth Vader would say, "There's nothing like the dark side".
John Boy
January 11, 2010
Saddlebags, thanks for the feedback. Black mag, not being a popular powder doesn't provide for information about it other than what the vendor says.
For an ascorbic acid based powder, find it real interesting that 50 - 60% reduced load compared to BP will produce the same results. Triple Seven is 10% less than a BP charge but 50-60% is a large reduction. Did Mr. Sanborne say if they were shipping the cans with 25% more powder in them yet?
Ole Saddlebags
January 12, 2010
I haven't talked with Craig in a couple of months so I do not know the latest in their shipping arrangements. I calculated that if BlackMag was priced at $32 per pound or $20 per 10 oz. can, the powder would be breakeven with the other substitutes. Increasing the powder per can by 25% would definitely be a step in that direction.
John Boy
January 12, 2010
Bill, when I talked to Sanborne, he offered to send me the MSDS on the powder. I can follow up on that request.
Ole Saddlebags
January 12, 2010
Thanks for the question on BlackMag. Yes the powder does contain a significant amount of potassium perchlorate, which is what gives it the prowess it has.
John Boy has a nice offer for you, but I don't think Cabela's carries BlackMag. If they do, please let me know.
I have the MSDS for the powder and it does not list the specifics of the powder. I got the chemical info from Craig Sanborn. As I've said before, he is very open about what the powder is and what it contains.
Dutch Bill
January 12, 2010
OK John Boy. Just returned from the wilds of northern Berks County. Nice view from Cabala's parking lot of the snow covered first blure mountain out to Allentown.
NO Black Mag XP.
It looks like Hodgdon and Pie-on-ear has the place in the bag. Lots of Pyrodex and Triple Seven. Lots of Shockey's Gold. And that was it!
Needed .380 hollow points for the concealed carry Colt Mustang. Only ones they have are made by Aguila in Mexico. Given my neighborhood, and me being The Last Gringo, is this an omen of sorts?? Got my wool hunting socks for the biking in cold weather.
Guess I'll have to find a good excuse to go out to Bass Pro at Harrisburg and see what they have in the way of powders.
But if this Black Mag XP gets most of its power from Potassium perchlorate it is going to be rather corrosive if the gun and spent cases are not cleaned quickly.
Guess I might have to start on my Plutonium perchlorate based sub. Never mind the mushroom shaped cloud out the muzzle!
Ole Saddlebags
January 12, 2010
Thanks for the post. With respect to corrosion, I always wash my brass right after shooting to prevent problems. I have left some unwashed for months just to test out the corrosion issue, and they looked fine when I finally did wash them. But washing them is so easy so why take a chance.
With respect to the ferrous metal of the gun, BlackMag is completely noncorrosive. I have several reports documenting this and I have let my guns set for several weeks before cleaning them on occasion, and no corrosion problems. Cleanup was still as easy as if they were cleaned right away. You should try this stuff. Craig Sanborne is coming to the shot show, which I think is this weekend in Harrisburg (my memory may have failed me here). If this is correct, why not visit with him and discuss the powder. Have fun.