I have a quick question. Is the slide stop designed to be disengaged by the notch in the slide as it runs over the stop on its way to its most rearward travel or is it supposed to drop down with a slight pull on the slide without running over the notch? Or both? This is assuming a full or no magazine is inserted of course. What is the true purpose of the detent pushing on the slide stop if not to help it release when pressure is off the slide like most other semiautos? ie. to push it up instead of down?
The wording of your question is a bit unclear but, if I understand the question correctly, the answer is "Yes."
After the slide stop has engaged the slide, when the empty magazine has been removed and either the pistol is left empty or a loaded magazine has been installed, there are two ways to release the slide and return it to battery:
Press down on the slide stop lever; or
Pull the slide fully to the rear and release it (often referred to as "slingshotting" the slide).
I believe the second of the above is what you are describing. The front of the slide stop notch is sloped so that when the slide is pulled back it will overrun the slide stop and release it.
FWIW, there is a never-ending debate about which method of releasing the slide is "better" from a tactical perspective.
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What is the true purpose of the detent pushing on the slide stop if not to
help it release when pressure is off the slide like most other semiautos? ie.
to push it up instead of down?
Define "true"
Seriously, the preponderance of discussions on this issue indicate the slide stop detent is supposed to keep the slide stop in place until the magazine follower pushes it up to lock the slide. Therefore, it is not there to exert upward pressure or make it easier to lock the slide.
Need more convincing? Here's a deductive approach: a large percentage of premature locking issues (slide stop moving up too early) are resolved either with creating, or deepening, the detent hole in the slide stop.
Ok, so I think I have a better understanding. It neither helps in releasing nor locking the slide. It just helps keep it in place until the follower hits it. Good info.
Actually if you hold the slide in alignment with the slide stop, and carefully watch the plunger you may find the plunger is first pushed in slightly and then comes back out slightly when the slide stop is raised and lowered. This is easy to interpret to the function that it actually tends to keep it either in the down or up position.
The plunger does -- but if the slide stop has a detent, it is typically located to hold the stop a little more firmly in the down position. I didn't understand the question at first, but it appears to have been asking just about the detent. Most replacement slide stops don't have any detent, and probably a fair percentage of 1911 manufacturers don't use them in new pistols.
I agree with what I believe you are saying, and do not have any or even seen any as it is an unneeded alteration to add an indent to the slide stop. A detent is the positive counter part which we commonly, and correctly refer to as the slide stop plunger, as the slide stop does not by design have an indent. The OP referrs to "the detent pushing on the slide stop". Can only mean the "plunger pushing on the slide stop".
Nope. You probably know a bit more about 1911s than I do, but I know I know more about words and language than you do.
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Definition of DETENT
: a device (as a catch, dog, or spring-operated ball) for positioning and holding one mechanical part in relation to another in a manner such that the device can be released by force applied to one of the parts
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detent
A "detent" is a mechanical device of some kind, a positive stop or catch in a mechanism to ensure that two parts fall into the same relative orientation consistently. The plunger pushing on the face of a slide stop that has not had an indentation drilled or ground into it does not constitute a "detent." That's just spring pressure -- friction. His terminology is incorrect -- you are correct that what he called the "detent" is the plunger -- but without a corresponding dimple in the end face of the slide stop there is no detent mechanism.
Just trying to clarify that the OP was referring to the plunger and referred to it as a detent. I didn't want to use the normal English term to describe the detent/plunger as that would put me in warning territory, so chose positive shape as a plunger is and a negative shape as an indent is.
The definition is what I was referring to also, as in spring loaded ball that's the positive shape. Pretty funny.
The definition posted is perfect for describing the action between the slide stop and plunger, it holds it, until moved by an outside force. Correct.
The detent is one item in conjunction with another when used, just as a bolt needs a nut to complete it's purpose.
Detents are for sale as just that, the spring loaded part, not the part that it bears against that you where referring to in your reply that I was hoping to help in understanding, when you said...but if the slide stop has a detent, it is typically located to hold the stop a little more firmly in the down position...Were you not referring to the application of an indent to the slide stop surface that bears against the plunger, and called it a detent? When in fact the plunger would be the detent in this coupled relationship to the slide stop.
I've never inferred how I believe, and don't understand your reason for posting this statement. You probably know a bit more about 1911s than I do, but I know I know more about words and language than you do. Not a pivotal point to understanding, and what the purpose I believe forum posting is about.
OK, so how about just calling it a dimple? Technically and colloquially correct?
Where? And why? Dimple is a fine word. But a dimple isn't a detent, nor was referred to as being such by the OP.
No, the "detent" is the assembly. Any mechanism that creates a positive stop or position for two parts that move relative to one another is a "detent." In automobiles, each position at which an automatic transmission lever stops is a detent. If a physical pawl engages and you have to push a button or lift a "thingie" (such as the PARK position), then it's a stop rather than a detent. In essence, a detent is a "positive hesitation point" in a mechanism. It isn't one part of the mechanism.
I suspect we're over-analyzing things more than a little, but once a term has been misused or a part has been misnamed, it's important (IMHO) to bend over backward to ensure that it's clarified accurately and completely.
And all this time I've been calling some of these "thinga-mabobs" and "do- hickies"!
I suspect we're over-analyzing things more than a little, but once a term has been misused or a part has been misnamed, it's important (IMHO) to bend over backward to ensure that it's clarified accurately and completely.
Okay, don't understand why Hawkmoon you ignore the responses to your posts, but okay, again.
So, if a detent is only the assembly of two parts which I agree there must be two parts to work just as a bolt needs a nut to be complete, it is still a bolt and a nut or threads in a part, and a bolted fastener when together. So the point I am not understanding is detents are for sale, and they are only the spring loaded portion with either a ball or plunger. Or what do they mean when you buy an impact wrench with ball or pin detent? It means it has a spring loaded ball to hold a socket, or a spring loaded pin to hold the socket, which in both cases the socket is kept from falling off by the detent.
What holds the thumb safety up? The detent, or plunger. The dimple in the stop doesn't do it, it is where the detent goes. I do prefer plunger as that is the label on the parts spec. And the reason I posted post #7, so you might see the OP was referring to the plunger, and called it a detent as others, including Kimber do also.
So what where you referring to in this post, when you said detent?
Quote:
The plunger does -- but if the slide stop has a detent, it is typically
located to hold the stop a little more firmly in the down position. I didn't
understand the question at first, but it appears to have been asking just
about the detent. Most replacement slide stops don't have any detent, and
probably a fair percentage of 1911 manufacturers don't use them in new
pistols.
Here's a few examples.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/p...rod=315&xSec=21
http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/product.php?xProd=313
http://www.criticalpaintball.com/pr...BALLDETENTS.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Kila-Products...t/dp/B001IY0T44
http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/s...s&submit=Search
etc.
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And all this time I've been calling some of these "thinga-mabobs" and "do-
hickies"!
See that's okay as long as you only refer to them by that and not the other. They can't be both, either or, don't ya' know.
Jon, the fact Kimber refers to the plunger as a detent doesn't make the terminology correct.
No, and it doesn't make it wrong either. And again you avoid the direct question as to your own use of the word detent, and your only tightly held definition of it, just doesn't seem to work in your post #6. Consistency helps in understanding the intent of the understanding one hopes to convey.