1911 shortened and radius slide stop pin technique

1911 shortened and radius slide stop pin technique

When enhancing your 1911 with a countersink slide stop pin most people find that producing a perfect radius on the pins end is very difficult, but I have found a technique that simplifies the process.

You need to under stand that it is critical not to change the remaining diameter of the pin or frames shaft, also you don't want to over heat the pin and change the tensile strength of the pin.

First remove the slide from the frame and slip the stop pin through the hole on the frame, with a sharpie marker shade all the protruding section of the pin, if you have a black pistol use a silver color sharpie.

Now take the pin out and on a grinding wheel start to grind the tip of the pin applying light pressure so as not to over heat the pin, as you start getting to the end of the marked portion check it with the frame, the idea hear is to leave the pin slightly longer then flush about 1/32" to 3/64" because you will need this extra material once you start to rough shape the radius on the grinding wheel, I would wrap a piece of masking tape about 3/16" below the end of the pin to assure that I don't change any of the remaining diameter of the pin. Start rotating the pin around the grinding wheel in a continuous motion making sure not to grind where you've taped, when you have roughly radius the point of the pin you will end up with a slight point, which later on you will remove, that's why you left the pin slightly longer to begin with.

Third you will need a 7/32" or 3/16" hex head electric screw driver tip and a small piece ¾” x ¾”of plumber's emery cloth. Install the 7/32" or 3/16" driver tip to a hand held drill and place the piece of emery cloth on top of the driver and hold it down with your rough slide stop pin and run the drill at a high rpm while pushing the stop pin down into the driver, it works like an electric pencil sharpener and will produce a perfect polished radius and while applying pressure and pushing the stop pin down, will remove the extra length that was left slightly longer and pointed.

PICTURE 404

PICTURE 404

PICTURE 404

Too much removal of metal from the frame.

I used a new 3/8" drill bit and removed 1/16" deep just enough to dimple the frame and my finger to fit easy. The metal left at the top portion of the shaft is 3/32" wide and bottom is 6/32" wide. It's about identical to Bill Wilson's carry pistol.

And this change was necessary for what?

Never heard of anyone popping out a slidestop, ever.

Pop culture change.

JMB did not seem to need one.

I gotta agree, I wouldn't alter the frame. Slide stop shouldn't need to be altered, but even if you did have issue with it sticking out, I'd be more likely to just cut it flush with the frame. That just isn't an area I'd want to remove metal from.

I did a full melt job on one of my 1911s a year or so ago, and did do a procedure like that to the magazine release, but that isn't as much of a stress area.

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even if you did have issue with it sticking out, I'd be more likely to just cut it flush with the frame.

Bingo!

Countersinking the frame for the slidestop pin is usually done for left handed shooters who shoot thumb forward, and have an issue with pushing the pin out of engagement under recoil. The modification is done in conjunction with cutting the end of the pin flush with the frame. The countersink is done to allow the slidestop to be pushed out for disassembly without the need for a tool.

When this is done, the material that supports the pin is compromised, and makes it more prone to elongation from the works slamming to a stop as the gun goes to battery.

If there any bodies opinion that I would take is yours and after reading your response I not sure I did the right thing.

But maybe you can tell me why does well known gunsmith like Jardine Custom, Bill Wilson, and Ed brown countersink their frames? Do they reinforce the inside of the frame?I've been closely looking at my pin and it looks like about half of it rest on the thick bottom portion of the frame and with the reduced 14# recoil spring that I have, it will probably minimize any excessive battering. but tell me what you think do you think that these well known gunsmiths reinforce the inside of the frame?

I measured the top portion that was left on my frame and it is 3/32" the bottom is 6/32"

They do this because their customers are following pop culture changes.

Reduced material in this area means reduced support for ths SS pin.

Since there is no need for this, change shouild not be nade.

Lack of support is a greater concern on cheaper guns.

Tuner (not Johnny), I'll bet that there is no reinforcement when this is done by anyone.

Reinforcement would cost more that the change, and makes no sense at all.

Back to pop internet culture, as I have never heard of anyone popping out a slide stop, period.

Changes should be based on needs, common sense, and reliability, not pop culture, or ''cause everyone on the internet is doing it'.

Your probably right about the pop culture, but isn't it what's change our 1911's to what they are today, most 1911 today are not the old GI spec pop culture probably had a lot to do with that.

What got me to want to modify my 1911 was that I had gotten away from target shooting and started practicing point shooting. I think Johnny was right when he mentioned the felt handed shooter running a risk by accidental pushing the slide stop with their thumbs. but as for myself a read an article concerning point shooting and after seeing the modification done on some high dollar 1911 convinced me to do it to mine I think it looks preety cool. Hear are some articles by some well known people that you might find interesting.

http://www.pointshooting.com/1911.htm

http://www.bobtuley.com/pointshooting.htm

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You're probably right about the pop culture, but isn't it what's change our 1911's to what they are today, most 1911 today are not the old GI spec pop culture probably had a lot to do with that.

Not sure that I understand all of this.

Granted, there are many changes for the 1911.

You need to sort through them, and apply common sense.

I have made some to mine, but they are thoroughly researched, and not made quickly.

There are folks who change their 1911's just to change them.

I don't believe in change just for change's sake.

The large gunsmith's are doing what their customers want.

Very few customers walk in and ask the gunsmith's expert opinion first.

Use your common sense filter with internet information, like everything else.

There are some 1911 changes that are worthwhile. Commander hammers, beavertail grip safeties, lowered ejection ports, beveled magwells, I even like a slightly extended thumb safety.

This mod, however, doesn't have benefits that overcome the detrimental effects.

If you shoot lefty, cutting the extended part of the slide stop flush with the frame will eliminate the possibility of pushing it out on recoil without weakening a stress area of your frame.

As far as the benefit for "point-shooting", the reason this article claims it can interfere is that it is describing a goofy method of laying your index finger along the slide and pulling the trigger with your middle finger. This method of shooting is just plain wrong.

A proper 2-handed grip by a right handed person will not result in the stop being pushed out. A one handed grip, as commonly used in point-shooting, will not have any effect on the stop when held by either a righty or a lefty.

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There are some 1911 changes that are worthwhile. Commander hammers, beavertail grip safeties, lowered ejection ports, beveled magwells, I even like a slightly extended thumb safety.

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Actually, a Commander hammer has some practical advantages due to its shape. Plus, it does not weaken the frame.

Bingo!

These are all perfect updates, and necessary for reliability.

Response to slide stop radius Tutorial (Disagreement)

Just got off the phone 870-545-3635 with the technical question department at Wilson Combat, I spoke with one of their techs named Mat regarding the countersinking slide stop treatment that they do to their fire arms.

I asked him what practical purpose did it served, he told me that it prevented accidental premature slide stop release specially for left handed shooters and that it enhanced the looked of the firearm, then he asked me if I was having a problem with my Wilson and what was the serial # of my 1911 and I told him that I did not own a Wilson but that I was a member of an internet 1911 forum and that the countersink slide stop had become an issue and that I had mentioned Bill Wilson carry pistol so that’s why I was calling directly to the source to get information directly from them. He assured me that the countersink was quite strong

I asked them if they reinforce the frame on the area they remove the metal, and he explained to me that their engineers had calculated how mush metal could be removed before compromising the structural integrity. I asked him how mush metal they removed and he told me 0.160cm I also asked him how wide they made the countersink and he told me 0.952cm and that they offer a life time warranty on the firearm and that they have been in business for 32 years and they have an impeccable reputation, that if their engineers would have felt that the countersinking treatment would create problems for them in the future that they would have never offered it, and that they use the highest grade steel, he also told me that this treatment has become very popular, also that 25% of all their custom build orders are being ordered this way. Then he said that if there was anything else he could help me with, I thanked him for all the information and hung up.

I guess this pop culture thing is spreading like wild fire. I think that if the countersinking of the frame is going to be the wave of the future that the companies that manufacture the frames should leave that area a bit thicker just enough to compensate for the removal of metal without adding extra weight the gun.

The nighthawk appears to have removed the least metal from around the pin (can't tell the depth).

For the Wilson, that would be 0.063" in depth and 0.375" in radius

Again, any modification that removes metal from an impact area of the frame will cause that area to be weaker.

I'm glad you got the answer you wanted to hear from Wilson, but justification of this to yourself doesn't change the physical properties of metal.

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it prevented accidental premature slide stop release specially for left handed shooters and that it enhanced the looked of the firearm

So unless you are a lefty, you are making a purely cosmetic modification. Not really worth the possible detrimental effects, IMO.

I agree. If JMB had thought the frame was overengineered when designed I'd bet he would have cut it thinner to save the weight and make the "package" more user friendly. As he didn't (overlooking the improvements in metallurgy) it's not something I'd undertake with out a definite need.

What really surprised me is that Wilson is even putting it on their large 5' Wilson Ultra Light carry which has an aluminum frame. well you asked for one testimonial from some one who has had their frame accidentally malfunction cause the extended slide stop. well here is a post with several.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=221564

Actually, nothing surprises me these days!

I you really want to wade into a war, look at full length guide rods vs. GI style.

Folks on each side get plain nasty about this one.

I read the link, and there is one!

Some of the other comments were off the wall.

There is no need to clear lasergrips, as I have a set.

I agree that it looks cleaner, but I can't see the functional need for it.

In order to pop the slide stop, the SS needs to be aligned with the disassembly notch in the slide.

I have one 1911 with an aluminium frame, and there is no way that I would remove material from that frame anywhere.

I had never had issues, but I would never buy another one.

The SW 1911 scandium frames look good, though.

I have never had an issue, and don't plan on making the change myself.

Just because you say countersinking the frame is detrimental doesn't make it so! When the master gun smith in this country like Ed Brown, Les Baer, Bill Wilson, Jardin custom Valtro, Kimber have researched whether countersinking the frame is detrimental or not and have come up with the conclusion that it's not, I'm going to go with their conclusion, and not with Kcshooter conclusion, no disrespect intended.

There's nothing wrong in being set in your ways, I do it all the time, for instance these manufacturers countersink their aluminum frames, that's where I depart from their conclusion, I'm sure they've had there engineers calculate it's sound but still I'm set in my ways. Will I bad mouth them probably not maybe they figure that the light frame 1911 will only be used for cc carry and not hard competition or range practice, who knows I only talked to Mat @ Wilson and he assured me they had done all their home work.

Shooter I have read countless testimonials in this same forum, where people have accidentally pushed their slide stop when least expected and that in it's self makes it detrimental in my book, it doesn't hurt to research it goggle it.

If you slip your slide stop through your frame without the slide or barrel, you will notice that the lower half of the pin is cradled securely at the bottom of the frame. If the barrel link is the correct size and there is a correct barrel lock up and you have at least a 14# recoil spring there shouldn't be excessive slide stop battering.

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Just because you say countersinking the frame is detrimental doesn't make it so!

You're right, just because I say it doesn't make it so. Physics do.

You're right handed, correct? Try pushing the slidestop out when the gun is in battery. Doesn't work, does it? You never said that it HAD happened to you, just that you read on the internet that it could happen. Did it ever happen to you?

The only time I can see this happening is when a lefty has a two-handed grip and pushes on the stop while the gun is in recoil. But it can still happen even after your modification, because the slide stop is still able to be pushed on. Which makes this nothing but cosmetics. But as I said earlier, yes, this can happen.

And there's an easy way to fix it without weakening your frame structure, just by cutting the end even with the frame. This would also make it even less likely for the stop to be able to be moved unintentionally. Seems if you were really that worried about it, this would be the much smarter alteration.

You keep saying how since some manufacturers do this mod it must be ok, and for many people that's probably true. But I've got a Colt approaching 25,000 rounds thru it, and I'm just getting started. Do you really think that mod wouldn't have affected my gun by now? How about when I reach 50,000? 75,000?

You've made your view clear. Honestly, I'm not trying to beat you up over it. I'm simply letting those that are considering making the same modification know that removing metal from a stress point will cause the metal to be weaker than it was before you cut it. It's not that hard to figure this out, and if you weren't so set in defending your alteration, you might be able to see the logic here.

Jamie B, While I agree that the slide stop backing out has got to be one of the rarest problems facing a 1911. And as I have never experienced a failure of this kind and I have been using a varies of 1911s over the years I understand your position, but it can happen.

This is from our sister site:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=479042

I started this thread to help the DIY type person that would like having this treatment done to their 1911 for what ever reasons you may have be it cosmetic or practicality.

The major concern I had before countersinking my frame was the weakening of the frame, I did my home work and research concerning the countersinking of the frame which for some has been a legitimate point of contention.

I've always thought that the protruding slide stop looked unfinished, but understood the purpose for it and after seeing some custom 1911's with the countersunk slide stop I though it gave it that finish look that I perceived was missing.

I looked at the Nighthawk countersink profile, the Kimber profile, The Les Bear profile, Ed Brown profile, the Valtro profile and the Wilson profile though more profound I liked better for a couple reasons, one was that the countersink was wider which I felt spread the removal of metal in a more tapered manner which would weaken the frame less for instance if you file a V grove 2/32"deep on a piece of steel 5/32" and apply a fulcrum pressure it would probably break in half, but if you spread the 2/32" in a tapered manner it would bend but not break in two. Also making the countersinking 3/8" would make it easier to push the pin out.

I was concerned about the profile of the slide stop pin whether to leave it flat and slightly relieve the edge like the Nighthawk or round it off with a complete radius like Wilson's which is what is needed to easily assemble the slide but did not know exactly how to achieve the radius when it came to me how an electric pencil sharpener worked and I figured a clever way to achieve this by using a hex head driver on the end of a drill covered with emery cloth (photo attached on post #1)I knew that the constant rotation of the emery cloth would create a perfect radius.

I hope that this tutorial has helped some one that has been wanting this treatment on their 1911.