OK! The last thing the moderators of this web-site want is another thread about the EGW oversized FPS.
I recently purchased a new Colt XSE Lightweight Government Model pistol. I changed the stocks, and installed a Harrison medium length trigger. So far so good.
When I initially fired this new pistol it worked just fine, but I also installed an EGW oversized FPS. This modification seemed to have a negative effect on this pistol. When I fired this gun today everything seemed OK, but then the slide would recoil and get jammed on the frame and locked open. I didn't have the OEM FPS but I did have the one out of my Colt Commander, which I re-installed and no more problems.
The slide stop was not the issue.
In my humble opinion this FPS made the LWT GM recoil more or worse than when initially shot. I did not change the recoil spring, and put a small radius on the EGW FPS.
For now I will shoot the pistol with the Colt FPS.
This should not have happened?
Due to fitting irregularities the stop may have dropped, and caught on the hammer?
Did you check to see that the bottom of the new FPS is flush with the bottom of the disconnector track? If the FPS extends below the track, even a little bit, the slide may (and likely will) hang up.
The EGW FPS can be fitted to exactly the same dimensions as the Colt part with enough attention to detail. It is obvious that a fitting issue is the cause of the malfunction.
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When I fired this gun today everything seemed OK, but then the slide would
recoil and get jammed on the frame and locked open.
The slide got stuck all the way back in the fully-recoiled position?
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The slide got stuck all the way back in the fully-recoiled position?
Exactly! Apparently the slide was being forced back just enough more for the slide to stay open. My first thought was that the recoil caused the forward end of the slide grooves to hang up on the frame rails at the recoil spring abutment, but it can't besause the recoil spring guide is in between them.
It seems like the slide may have hung up on the end of the recoil spring, the recoil spring closed end being pushed into the next coil.
What I do not understand it why the pistol would recoil more with the EGW FPS in it
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What I do not understand it why the pistol would recoil more with the EGW
FPS in it
I don't know why it would either - or how it could, for that matter! As I understand it, sensed recoil is a combination of muzzle flip and the impact of the slide smacking into the recoil spring plug flange which is already held against the frame abutment. But how either or both of those could increase with the EGW FPS I don't know.
The slide getting stuck back has me stumped too. Hmm-m-m:
* Could it have possibly been premature slidelock (slide stop catching its notch in the slide with round in the magazine)?
* When it got stuck back, what was needed/what did you have to do to free it?
* What type of recoil spring system does the gun have?
There has to be more to this story than the initial report. Perhaps Paul Harvey will give us the low down.
I do not think so, because the slide stop notch was behind the slide stop.
When the slide got stuck back, a slight bump in the back and it went forward.
It has the Colt FLGR that they use in the XSE pistol, factory recoil spring.
What I did notice this morning when I disassembled the gun was that the closed end of the recoil spring that goes on to the guide rod seems slightly deformed. The closed end is not snug on this guide rod. This leaves me to think that maybe the coil on end of the spring was somehow being squeezed together and getting hung up in side of, and or causing the slide recoil spring plug port to be stuck on the end of the spring.
When I shot the pistol new it worked just fine. Shot some factory UMC 230 MC and some reloads. Because I do not like the long trigger, and like a smooth medium length I changed out the trigger. While I was at it I figured I'd go ahead and install the EGW FPS.
The EGW FPS caused the slide to get stuck open, I did not have the Colt OEM FPS with me, but did have the OEM one out of my Colt .38 Super. When I switched from the EGW FPS to the Colt FPS the malfunction ceased to happen.
The problem may very well be the recoil spring, but it doesn't make any sense to me why it would do it with the EGW FPS and not the Colt
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The problem may very well be the recoil spring, but it doesn't make any
sense to me why it would do it with the EGW FPS and not the Colt
Bring the pistol back to a stable configuration (i.e. with a new recoil spring) and then we'll see what the real issue is.
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Bring the pistol back to a stable configuration (i.e. with a new recoil
spring) and then we'll see what the real issue is.
This seems like the logical approach to me also. The recoil spring might be out of spec, not tempered correctly. I just compared the recoil spring out of the new pistol to the one in my old Series 70, and the end of the new one just don't look right.
When I ordered the new trigger and parts I bought an XP firing pin spring, and it never dawned on me to get an extra recoil spring.
A picture of the stop in and out of the slide may give a clue.
Ken... Pull the slide back as far as it'll go and hold it. Pull the trigger firmly and hold it there. Ease the slide forward and see if it catches on the disconnect. My bet is that it will. If it does... release the trigger. The slide should snap to battery.
Check the center leg of the sear spring for a kink about 1/8th inch from the top. The spring is bearing too low on the disconnect. The new trigger may be a player, but I doubt it.
The reason that it doesn't do it with the OEM FP stop is because the EGW is reducing the slide's rearward speed and momentum and the rebound off the impact abutment isn't as lively... which also reduces the forward momentum. In this case, just enough to let the disconnect stop the slide.
The reason that it recoils more sharply is because the disconnect is also providing a more direct connection between slide and frame when the slide moves rearward because it's not being pushed into the frame.
When you hear hoofbeats...
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the slide stop notch was behind the slide stop.
If the slide stop notch was behind the slide stop, the breech face must have been about 1/4" behind the disconnector.
Just run that little test, ken. I've seen this one a time or three...most recently on ulflyer's Norinco. Swapped out the sear spring and sent him home happy.
1911 Tuner: Received your PM and did respond, well at least I thought I did.
Can't get the slide to hang up on the disconector, tried several times.
What I have noticed is that with the FLGR I can slide the recoil spring in an out of the assembled pistol. When the end of the recoil spring reaches the end of the slide recoils sprin housing it hangs up:
The end of the recoil spring is distorted:
Therefore with the Colt OEM FPS the slide is rebounding off of the frame as it is supposed to. But with the EGW FPS the slide is stopping in the rearward position because the recoil spring in bound up in the slide as shown in my picture. The perceived "more recoil" with the EGW FPS is from the slide stopping in the rearward position. So the EGW FPS is actually doing what it is supposed to do.
Bent spring! Good one.
The bent spring shouldn't cause the slide to stop. The question is...what bent it? Do you have a coil bind condition?
And...Did you hold onto the trigger when you did the test?
Do believe that being a Colt that in the entrance to the slide spring channel there is a shoulder. This shoulder makes the entrance a catch for a bent spring. I cut the shoulders out of any that have it so the recoil spring assembly can be entered from the back side as well.
The specs call for the recoil spring plug housing in the slide to be countersunk inside. My old Series 70 is, this gun is not.
Quote: The specs call for the recoil spring plug housing in the slide to be countersunk inside. My old Series 70 is, this gun is not.
Good information, so current Colt spring channels are straight bored. I only had a S70 in 9mm and a GC S80 to go by and they did have the shoulder.
Can't get the slide to hang up on the disconector, tried several times.
What I have noticed is that with the FLGR I can slide the recoil spring in an out of the assembled pistol. When the end of the recoil spring reaches the end of the slide recoils sprin housing it hangs up:
The end of the recoil spring is distorted:
Therefore with the Colt OEM FPS the slide is rebounding off of the frame as it is supposed to. But with the EGW FPS the slide is stopping in the rearward position because the recoil spring in bound up in the slide as shown in my picture. The perceived "more recoil" with the EGW FPS is from the slide stopping in the rearward position. So the EGW FPS is actually doing what it is supposed to do.
I don't see any way the different firing pin stop would cause the recoil spring/guide/slide assembly to function any differently, in terms of hanging up. And I don't see anything in the photos to indicate any malformation of the recoil spring.
What I would suggest, since the gun has a full-length guide rod, would be to assembly it withOUT any recoil spring, cock the hammer, then manually cycle the slide to full retraction and see if it binds in that position.
I encountered that with one of the pistols I built a few years ago. I thought I had the slide perfectly fitted to the receiver, but every time I pulled the slide all the way to the rear ... it stuck. I gave it a couple more passes with a file on each side and then it worked fine.
Quote: Good information, so current Colt spring channels are straight bored. I only had a S70 in 9mm and a GC S80 to go by and they did have the shoulder.
The shoulder is there, but it is supposed to be CSK on the outside rearward end of the spring slide channel..
Quote: I don't see any way the different firing pin stop would cause the recoil spring/guide/slide assembly to function any differently, in terms of hanging up. And I don't see anything in the photos to indicate any malformation of the recoil spring.
Neither do I, but my assumption is that was is happening is happening with both FPSs. The closed end of the recoil spring is bent and pushed over to one side (this isn't quite clear in the picture) and is being forced inside the next coil, which seems a bit oversized. Because the EGW FPS retards the recoil it hangs up in the open position.
For the price of a new recoil spring I'll try one, I like ordering parts anyway
Haven't experienced anything like this in 40 years; well almost 40; of shooting 1911s. I've owned quite a few, and built /assembled a couple.
I do appreciate the input and did try all suggestions so far. The gun is new and if an issue arises hopefully Colt will fix it, that is if I don't void the warranty.
Quote: The shoulder is there, but it is supposed to be CSK on the outside rearward end of the spring slide channel..
Sorry, CSK? To be clear will the plug pass through the slide recoil spring channel?
Far fetched, but worth the try. Assemble the slide complete with guide rod and spring, and jam the guide rod head against the slide spring channel to see if you can get a hang up.
Quote: The bent spring shouldn't cause the slide to stop. The question is...what bent it? Do you have a coil bind condition?
And...Did you hold onto the trigger when you did the test?
Tuner it seems to me that the closed end of the recoil spring is being squeezed into the next coil, which seems a bit oversized and out of round. The recoil spring does drag in the rearward end of the slide recoil spring channel. What bent it? (!) Probably out of spec to begin with.
Yes I held the trigger when I did the test and just tried it again.
Quote: The recoil spring does drag in the rearward end of the slide recoil spring channel. What bent it? (!) Probably out of spec to begin with.
Not that bad out of spec. That spring is damaged. How many coils/what wire diameter is it?
Quote: Not that bad out of spec. That spring is damaged. How many coils/what wire diameter is it?
32 coils /.042 diameter.
Quote: 32 coils /.042 diameter.
Look for a problem in the spring tunnel or the guide rod flange abutment. Recoil springs don't do that on their own.
Quote: Look for a problem in the spring tunnel
It isn't countersunk, where it is supposed to be! Guess the best bet is to let Colt do what wasn't done.
Quote: It isn't countersunk, where it is supposed to be! Guess the best bet is to let Colt do what wasn't done.
So without the bevel/countersink on the entrance the spring was bent, only to get caught on the shoulder corner on the inside.
Quote: So without the bevel/countersink on the entrance the spring was bent, only to get caught on the shoulder corner on the inside.
Yep! The other two pistols my old series 70 GM and XSE Commander have the countersink. Obviously its there for a reason and you can do a visual and see that the spring was getting squeezed in the end of the slide spring tunnel.
Quote: Boy oh boy! If I ever have a serious problem (of course all gun problems are serious:-)), I want this team to be on my side. Good work gentlemen. You put all those forensic TV programs to shame.
You got that right, the thread title should be changed, but the pistol didn't malfunction until I installed the EGW FPS. Natrually 1911Tuner pointed the finger in the right direction.
This had me baffled because it didn't make any sense, but now it does. Of course changing parts in a new firearm trying to void the warranty isn't a good idea, but in this case it was a good thing. I would have noticed it sooner or later. I'm no expert, but have been shooting and working on guns for quite some time now, sometimes we need help, or Tuners guiding light.
Without that counterunk in the slide the recoil springs first coil was being forced over top of the closed end of the recoil spring; which deformed it, and being jammed into the slide recoil spring tunnel. The EGW FPS slowed the slide down just enough for the slide to jam in the full open position. The EGW FPS does indeed work, and the problem is a missed milling step on Colt's part.
I'll say this, if it didn't happen to me I'd have trouble trying to figure it out.
Quote: Without that counterunk in the slide. . . Which countersink was omitted:
• the 60° included angle on the rear surface of the RSPT, or
• the 45° (90° included angle) that's about 1/8" farther forward?
Quote: • the 60° included angle on the rear surface of the RSPT, or
That be the one, completely square
That angle is there.
Called Colt today to get a status on my LWT GM that I sent in for warranty work. Seems like its taking awhile to get my gun back. Well it turned out that I could have saved a phone call, because the pistol was delivered by FEDEX this afternoon.
Quote: the 60° included angle on the rear surface of the RSPT, or
They put a CSK bevel there. It doesn't look much of a bevel, but it was square before. I guess I'll go shoot it, probably Friday. Not sure about installing the EGW FPS yet, but at least I know now that they do perform as wanted.
Well now that I have shot the new LWT GM a few times, yesterday I decided to go ahead and re-install the EGW FPS. Gun functioned fine. Checked the recoil spring for any deformation as happened the first time, and it looks OK to me. So I guess all that is needed a slight bevel to keep the spring from binding in the slide spring tunnel.
Maybe I had a defective recoil spring, but Colt did bevel in slide spring tunnel.
Quote: They put a CSK bevel there. It doesn't look much of a bevel, but it was square before.
FYI, according to the Ordnance drawing, the face OD of that CSK should be 0.51" to 0.52". But even though it's only 0.50" on one Remington Rand slide I checked, the spring doesn't catch at all. If yours does, you could just whittle it bigger with a stiff knife or scrape.
Its definitely beveled now. You can still see the slight deformation of the slide on inside end of the spring tunnel. The gun shot fine now IMO. Before the slide just stayed back apparrently jammed together on slide, recoil spring and guide.
Well the pistol was new and I figured I'd better let Colt fix it. When then E-mailed a calltag it was a good to go proposition. Once it gets some honest wear on it I might do a little filling stoning, etc.