I have always had issues with my Pro Crimson dinging me in the head with casings. With a vigorous manual slingshot a dummy round will come straight back. I ordered a new Kimber Extractor and it did the same thing.
SO I ordered up a new Wilson Extractor and FPS.
Here is what I found comparing the extractors.
The Kimber was almost 1mm shorter then the Wilson .99 shorter. A full MM shorter! The flat area at the rear was relieved almost half a mm more then the Wilson leaving both the broken original, and the new Kimber to be extremely loose. The Kimber clocked easily in the slide, the Wilson is tight enough and larger that it need a screwdriver to get it back out.
The Wilson Extractor has significantly more surface area to the hook.
I have not shot it yet, but dummy rounds are no longer denting my brow.
the FPS Wilson sent was for a Series 70, not the 80 I thought I ordered although today the site says out of stock. Not really a huge issue with the new extractor as it is a tight fit now with the Kimber FPS and Wilson Extractor.
The difference was clear to the naked eye when I put them side by side.
I plan to shoot it tomorrow and see if I have solved my issue, and yes I did properly tension the new Wilson also.
I believe that the issue with the Kimber is that the extractor is flat out too short, and the to get it to hook over the rim it does not grab the cartridge at a 90 degree flat angle, but instead had the hook toed out at the tip with alot of tension and very little gripping. It also would explain why the first Extractor broke at the hook and why it torn the rims of casings up.
All you know from this comparison...
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The Kimber was almost 1mm shorter then the Wilson .99 shorter.
...is their lengths differ, but you don't know whether either one of them is the correct length. The correct length can be found on the Ordnance blueprint in our Tech Issues section, 14th link down.
An extractor which has enough of a bend in it to provide the proper tension for the case rim when installed in the slide will be both difficult to install and difficult to remove from the slide. I get the impression from this comment...
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...the Wilson is tight enough and larger that it need a screwdriver to get
it back out.
...that the original Kimber was either real easy to remove with the finger or would simply fall out of the slide. If so, the original Kimber extractor was not bent enough to provide the needed tension. See this thread for a host of extractor tuning information: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=95791
And before heading off to the range, remember that a new extractor's tension needs to be checked and adjusted (if necessary). It's impossible to make a standard 1911 extractor that will have the proper tension when installed in every slide. Adjustment will probably be required.
I have the same issue. Not to threadjack, but I just checked my extractor with a live round, and it falls out.
Removing the extractor, well, just remove the firing pin stop and it falls out.
I am going to assume this is NOT normal
Thanks to the extremely helpful threads, it appears my stock Kimber extractor is working properly. The tuning threads were great. It was VERY, VERY, VERY loose. Appears to eject correctly (without beaming my forehead) with very violent pulls back on the slide.
I will have to shoot it to find out, but between new mags, new Wolff XP recoil and FP springs, and tuned extractor, I am feeling fairly confident that it will function correctly now.
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I am going to assume this is NOT normal
That is correct. The Ordnance drawing for the average extractor calls for it to be bent at manufacture so that its center pad is outboard of a line between the other two pads by about 0.012". But the extractor tunnel will not allow that much of a bend. When installed in the average slide, the amount of that bend is reduced to 0.004". In essence the extractor tunnel straightens the extractor in its middle by 0.008" and that straightening is what preloads the extractor.
Put another way, the extractor's positioning pad is forced against the inboard tunnel wall by the unbending that occurs during installation. During installation, no unbending is required until the aft pad reaches the tunnel - then the aft end of the extractor must be forced outward to get it to go in the rest of the way. And during removal some tool in its FPS slot is required to pry it back out.
This is a moot issue because Kimber has replaced my extractor. When I get it back tomorrow, I'll check and see what the tension difference is.
But look at my video and skip to the 3:59 minute mark and see the extractor test. In your opinion, does it appear ok. It's definately not too loose. I could shake harder than the video, and it would not fall out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om6pb-jb2DI#
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In your opinion, does it appear ok.
I can't really say whether it's OK or not because I rarely use the shake test, opting instead for the Weigand method using a force gauge. I'm not fond of the shake test because (for me) it's too "iffy". 28oz on my force gauge means something to me and is repeatable. Shaking moderately or vigorously isn't.
Got to wondering how much the extractor preload might be, so made a jig to measure the force needed to do this...
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In essence the extractor tunnel straightens the extractor in its middle by
0.008" and that straightening is what preloads the extractor.
...and it took about 14 pounds applied to the center pad to straighten a new Colt extractor by 0.008". Because it was applied at the center (like the tunnel in the slide would do) the positioning pad at the front of the extractor would be held against the inboard surface of the tunnel by a force of about 7 pounds.
So when the cartridge rim has moved up under the extractor and has moved the positioning pad almost 0.010" off the tunnel wall, the tensioning wall would be applying a force in excess of 7 pounds to the case rim. Maybe a total of 10 pounds?
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the FPS Wilson sent was for a Series 70, not the 80 I thought I ordered
although today the site says out of stock. Not really a huge issue with the
new extractor as it is a tight fit now with the Kimber FPS and Wilson
Extractor.
Since your Kimber is not a Series 80 design I am just wondering why you ordered a series 80 FPS. In my experience a series 70 FPS works much better in a Kimber.
Your video demonstrates another thing about the shake test which I don't like.
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I could shake harder than the video, and it would not fall out.
Too much depends on which way the slide is shaken.
In order for the 230gr JRN cartridge to be shaken loose, the shaking must make the case rim slip off of the left hand breechface guide block (LHBFGB):
* Shaking the slide (even one with a lowered ejection port) from side-to-side may not do it because the side of the bullet hits the lower inside edge of the port before the rim can slip off the LHBFGB.
* Shaking the slide vertically may do it if the shaking is vigorous enough to cause the bullet to head toward the port after the top of the case rim smacks into the breechface.
* And it seems it's easiest to shake the round loose if the shaking causes the bullet nose to head up and to the right at about a 45° angle - straight for the open port.
And adding to all this "iffiness" is an expensive optical sight which may make the slide harder to get a good grip on to do vigorous and violent shaking and which may end up turning what might normally be a vigorous shake in a moderate one - or even a violent shake into a vigorous one. A force gauge (such as a trigger pull gauge) eliminates all that iffiness for me.