I've had a few jams on my last couple range trips that i haven't had before. The pistol is a Wilson Combat CQB Compact and the ammo i had the trouble with was Winchester ranger +P 230 Gr hollow point and Lawmans 230 gr. round nose. I tried a few magazines of winchester white box 230 gr and didn't have any issues.
Whats happening is on the last round I'll get a jam where the case will get stuck between the feed lips when its ejecting. The case also has two BIG indentions on the front of the case like its hitting something moving forward. With the winchester ranger ammo it was even worse and would jam like this with rounds still in the magazine. I couldn't drop the mag to clear it and had to use my knife to flip it out. The case is also still in a pretty much horizontal position and stuck in the feed lips and not the face of the slide.
I'm wondering is I have an ejector issue or if its something else. I'm just glad I tried out the Ranger ammo before I carried it.
I'll also try to get a picture of the case up tonight. If I can position a case in the pistol how it was and get a picture of that up too.
I probably have about 2K or so rounds on this pistol.
Yes, it is an extractor issue. A weak extractor allows the case of the last round fired to drop away from the extractor. Partially because there is no round below it to support the case and the extractor is weak. The pistol then tries to rechamber the empty case but instead the slide drives the case into the barrel making the two large indentations you see.
An extractor tuneup is in order or the extractor may be cocking (turning) in the slide. Since the pistol has 2K rounds the extractor probably lost tension.
I've attached a couple pictures of 2 pieces of brass. What is it hitting to cause the two dents? You can see those and the nicks on the rims where it was jammed in the feed lips. The amount of bend really shows how much softer and more malleable the unplated brass is.
Having not messed with the extractor before whats involved in tuning the extractor? (im off to search the forums now) I don't know of anyone around locally i would trust sending my pistol to.
IMG SRC="jam2.jpg">
EDITED TO ADD: and what do we have here: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=81396
As mentioned in post #2 the two large dents on the case are from the case hitting the barrel while the barrel is off the barrel bed. Your first picture shows the case on the right with large impressions that should match your barrels throating.
Please see this posting from Niemi regarding extractor tuning links:
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php...684&postcount=4
EDIT: If it is any consolation, I had this same problem after I over "tuned" an extractor once. I made the groove feed radius ramp into the extractor tensioning wall too steep which actually pushed the case down and out of the extractor rather than hold it securely. This made the pistol miss extract/eject/refeed-spent-cases on the last round in my Checkmate mags.
I read Mr. Wilson's and Mr. Hallock's descriptions and as for their "test" it would do all that fine with or without a magazine. I wonder if my case is so borderline at this point its just not showing up on the tests. There is also a good chance I'm doing it wrong.
Hard to say what the difficulty might be with the tests, but your problem points to low extractor tension, so....
...increase your extractor tension and see what happens.
And if you've never adjusted the tension (bend) of a 1911 extractor, keep in mind it is a spring - and a rather thick spring. As such, it takes a lot of force to actually change (bend) it. "Lot" like in "Oww, that hurts!" And don't worry about breaking it.
But if you bend it too much, giving it too much tension, the gun won't return to battery because the case rim can't slide up under it.
I wonder if there's another point to consider.
The OP stated that this is happening with +P ammo; not WWB, which it feeds/extracts fine.
Could the slide be cycling faster than the mag can feed with the +P ammo? (This is a "compact" pistol.)
If so; would new mag springs be the cure?
I agree with you much more experienced guys that the extractor tension is most often the culprit in feeding, extraction and FTRB issues; I'm just puzzled that the standard pressure ammo works fine.
Blkexp98: Put a couple of rounds underneath the magazine spring, load just 1 round of jammiin' ammo, shoot & repeat. If it works OK leave the rounds under the spring - or get a new spring.
The other Lawman ammo I had problems with wasnt +P but that does bring up another issue. The only other +P ammo ive shot in it were some HydroShocks when I first got the pistol but it was newer then. The WWB as you said shot without any trouble.
The +P could just be magnifing the problem since everything is moving faster. I didnt have any feed problems but did have ejection failures with the +P ammo. The slide locked back after every jam as well. The feed lips had a pretty good grip on the case so it probably pulled out of the extractor then. One thing different from the thread I linked to was that my cases were still pretty well inline with the bore. They had a little upward tilt but wernt facing out like on the other thread.
My recoil spring is new and probably only has 200 rnds on it but the extra power could be making the pistol run too fast. When I ordered my spring I also got a Wollf XP one for my AK so i cant remeber if i went Wolf or Wilson but I probably bought another Wilson to be sure I got the right one.
I wish I still was in my machining classes so I had access to a mill and could make a tool to bend the extractor. That would be so easy to make.
Another thing is would I be better off buying a new extractor and tuning that? I'm just wondering how fast it will lose its spring this time after being worked.
EDITED TO ADD: Ahh, we posted at the same time. I'll give that a try next range trip. That still won't get into why its jamming on the last round though. It may however effect the jams I had with ammo still avaliable. I wish I could remember more details on those jams. The springs probably are a little weaker. Most of the time my magazines are loaded so they may be starting to take a set.
Quote:
That still wont get into why its jamming on the last round though.
[Edited: No it won't, like you said. Got myself all goofed up because I wasn't thinking straight - it's not jamming on the last round like you said, but jamming on the last empty case! The magazine's empty until the last empty case gets put back in it! Sorry 'bout this. ] Sure it will. Last round jams are often the result of a weak spring because the spring's compressed the least with only one round left in the magazine. This means the last round has the least spring pressure to hold it in place in the magazine and it's easier for it to escape from the magazine when the slide hits its aft limit after firing the previous round.
The 2 rounds (or even 1 round) under the spring just add more spring pressure to that last round.
Another factor could be if the magazine follower doesn't have a dimple on top to help keep that last round from getting loose.
If the case is being pulled part-way back into the magazine... the extractor tension isn't low.
If it's happening on the last round, the problem can't be misfeeding due to low magazine spring strength.
Is it possible that the extractor tunnel is dirty, causing to much extractor tension and pushing the empty cases down against the next round, or in the case of the last round, back into the magazine?