Do these 2 piece barrels ever fail or fall apart? Why do so many smiths say that these barrels are no good?
There have been photos posted here showing examples of the barrel separating. It doesn't happen often, but it can and does happen.
Why design a barrel this way?
Something to do with the lugs perhaps?
I honestly don't know, probably lower cost? Hi-Powers have had two piece barrels forever it seems and I have never seen one of their barrels come apart.
I've been thinking about these for a while now because I know a builder who has a pile of them. The hoods are cut of course and they won't likely match up with my piece but $20 gives them some appeal.
If I see any more builders with that many extra, unused S.A. parts in a giant box, I really think the next 1911 I buy will have to be a Springfield.
My totally uneducated guess would be just that - lower cost. That's if the part with the lower lugs is MIM or cast. If it's machined from solid bar stock, seems like it would be more expensive to make the two separate pieces and then put them together.
But maybe the ideal barrel steel is not the best lower lug steel, so to get the best overall "barrel" perhaps each is machined from the best (different) steel and then assembled - even though it costs more. (And I still believe in the Tooth Fairy )
With a 1-piece barrel you need to start with a rifled blank that has a large enough diameter to include the lower lugs. Next, a lot of machine time is used to carve away all that extra steel to get the barrel down to its finished size. With a 2-piece barrel you can start with a barrel blank that is much closer to the finished diameter and machine the barrel lugs as a separate part.
The cost savings is in material and machine time. They work fine as a factory barrel as long as they don't separate. I suspect that is a quality control issue, not a strength issue.
thats just scary. im not even sure if my 2001 model loaded is a one or two piece. Its an NM prefix. im gonna check with SA
I bet it's a two piece.
I can just see the front portion of the barrel on the range floor. Just doesn't seem like the barrel should be the place to save a few dollars. Just MHO.
It works for a large proportion of the over-under shotguns on the market. You can spend a lot of bucks on a Beretta or Perazzi and get monobloc barrels with separate tubes soldered into the breech.
IMHO - If it were a "bad idea", by now even they would know. I have no hard numbers here, but I would wager that the failures by being 2-part are way less than 1%, and of those that DID fail, the reliability of the history of ownership and usage is even less.
SIT UP and PAY ATTENTION! If there were problems, it's not likely that they would be 1 here... another there... But is likely that gun "abusers" pop up here and there. The telling point of mass production is when things go wrong... they go wrong for a lot of production items.
Hi OD:
Took the liberty of fiddling with your top pic in Post #3. Is this a crack?
PICTURE 404
If it is a crack, might that be the cause of the separation?
Also, do you have any idea how the two parts are/were assembled (i.e., press fit, brazed, silver soldered, shrunk fit, Locktite, Pogo Paste...)?
I doubt the "crack" (if that's what it is), had anything to do with the separation, it's on the "solid" part of the barrel, quite a little ways from the joint. I don't know for certain how SA does it, I have read somewhere they are furnace brazed, but I can't say with any authority.
I have read that they are silver soldered. Aren't "silver soldering" and brazing the same thing?
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Aren't "silver soldering" and brazing the same thing?
I thought so?
I've heard that "silver soldering" is actually "silver brazing."
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Aren't "silver soldering" and brazing the same thing?
The correct term is "silver brazing" but it has been called "silver soldering" for years and that term is still commonly used in the gun industry. The difference between "soldering" and "brazing" is the temperature that it takes for the filler metal to melt and flow. Silver-bearing solder usually requires a temperature above 1000 degrees F to melt and is quite strong.
I don't know if Springfield Armory is still using silver solder to join the 2-piece barrels or not. That is how they were doing it several years ago. AFAIK, this method has only been used on the carbon steel barrels used on the Mil Spec and GI Mil Spec models. Springfield Armory stainless steel barrels are 1 piece (although some of the early stainless Mil Specs had barrels and other small parts that were hard chromed carbon steel instead of being made from stainless steel).
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I can just see the front portion of the barrel on the range floor. Just
doesn't seem like the barrel should be the place to save a few dollars.
So where are all of these barrels that have been launched down range?
It is a manufacturing method that Springfield Armory (Imbel actually) choses to use in order to produce a lower priced 1911. Those same pistols also use lots of MIM parts to keep the cost down. It is easy to chose a different pistol if you do not want these features.
There is a silver soft soldering process too (in addition to silver brazing). The stuff I have is 4% silver & 96% tin, melts about 430degF/221degC so small stuff can be joined with standard electronics-style soldering pencils & guns. I think it's used mostly for jewelry. IIRC, it's much stronger than tin-lead solders.
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I think it's used mostly for jewelry
It its. Both my father and his dad were both bench techs (grandad worked for the city in instrumentation for over 40 years) and I can tell you that it's good stuff. A bit more pricey but good. It's not just made fer jewelry but mostly fer sweating pipes together and stuff like that. ...or anywhere that there could be high acidity. Probly good fer a gun barrel or a trigger bow (fergive me) too I would guess.
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I bet it's a two piece.
ha! I thought that also when I read this but I took a closer look and it wasnt I called SA and this one is a 1 piece It did look different from my milspec. On the milspec I could see where the 2 piece were joined and this one didnt have that which made me call to confirm