Is it time to panic Barrel fit at ramp.
I just picked up my 5inch Super Carry today. I took it home stripped it down for a good cleaning and lube. I noticed if you put the barrel back in the frame and push it to the rear the is only .013or .330mm gap between the bottom edge of the barrel throat and the top edge of the frame. IS IT TIME TO PANICK? I think I have read that there should be .032 or .813 mm gap. I have chambered dummy rounds using the slide stop and have also used the sling shot method with out any provlems. I hope to go to the range soon. The fit and finish is outstanding. The barrel seems to have plenty of foward movement. Any opinions would be greaty appreciated.
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. . .if you put the barrel back in the frame and push it to the rear the is
only .013or .330mm gap between the bottom edge of the barrel throat and the
top edge of the frame. IS IT TIME TO PANIC?
Nope. That's more than twice the gap of the average Government Model 1911, as shown here:
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I think I have read that there should be .032 or .813 mm gap.
You did because that's what all the cyberspace gurus and gun magazine writers say you gotta have. Do you gotta have it? Not in my opinion. See how the gun feeds and chambers after firing first.
Thanks Niemi24s, I can start to breathe again. Gun runs fine hand cycling or sling shot or from slide stop with dummy rounds.
I've a hunch it'll work just fine with 230gr JRN ammunition. Some hollow points might cause problems - especially the top round or two from a full extra capacity magazine.
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Gun runs fine hand cycling or sling shot or from slide stop with dummy
rounds.
Find out if it functions first before you think about messing with anything.
You can't fix what ain't broken.
I am not going to do anything until I fire it. I am not a big fan of 8rd magazines. I have a couple of the Wilson EMTs that have worked good so far. This gun came with an 8rd mag with a skirted follower. When cycling the gun it was much smoother with only 7rds loaded into the mag. Colt just replace my 8rd magazine with a standard 7rd mag. First round with the 8rd magazine would nose dive against the bottom of the feed ramp and sometimes hang especially with HP ammo. Reduce the rounds to 7 and mag ran fine. I think this may be a common occurence with the 8rd mag. Colt runs fine with any 7rd mag I have tried.
The 1/32nd gap is a bit over rated. Have seen many guns run with much less gap.
Yeap. what the others said. I've seen them work with less gap, without a hickup.
I love 8-round magazines, especially the way that #19 Wilson Follower/spring kits turn them into proper 7-rounders that feed great!
I made it to the range. I could not get the factory magazine in the gun with the slide closed when loaded with 8rds. Pulled the slide open inserted magazine and we were on our way. Gun feed fine with the factory 8rd magazine until next to the last round. Slide locked open with one round remaining and the fired case was laying on top of the last round. Did this two more times same results.
Time to start over using Wilson 7rd mags.one 8rd EMt Wilson, Metalform W/round follower,Colt 7rd factory and a converted old Kimber magazine using wilson 7rd kit.
I fired 1box Blazer Brass, 1 box UMC,1 box Champion, 1 box Winchester Silver Tips and 1 box of Gold Dot 200gr +p. I had a bunch of odds and in stuff I fired as well. Not a single failure.
Then I tried a box of Hornaday CD. Gun did not like this stuff. It would feed fine until next to the last round and the slide would lock open leaving one round in the mag and the fired case on top.
I had 240 trouble free rounds until I went to the Hornady CD.
When I got home and tore the gun down you could see where the bullet was dragging a little on the slide stop. I stoned and polished it a little and will try it again later. I guess I will avoid the hornady CD round.
I FOUND a Wilson kit and have put it in the factory mag. as Dave suggested. I have done this before. Hope it works.
*sigh*
tsk...
The .032 gap is what they call a "One Size Fits All" and is very handy if the feed ramp angle is a bit shallow at... say... 32 degrees. That much gap will still allow a bullet nose to clear the barrel ramp, or at worst... strike it near the top.
If the feed ramp is dead on 31 degrees, or a bit steeper... at say... 30.8 degrees... you can get by with less. I've seen quite a few Norincos run fine with no gap. I've seen quite a few Colts and Springfields that required adjusting to exceed the "One Size Fits All" 1/32nd inch. It depends on the gun and the feed ramp.
Of course, the barrel ramp angle is also a player. Shallow barrel ramp can get by with less gap. Steep angle needs a bit more.
It's how the two ramp angles work together that determines the feed reliability. There are limits on the barrel ramp. Cutting it more shallow means moving the top of the ramp forward... and that can lose case head support.
Ain't this fun?
Does the one size always fit all? No... but it does provide the best chance for feed reliability with the ramp angle variations commonly seen these days.
Can the gap be too wide? Yep. Sure can, and it can cause just as many problems as too little... and in that case, there's no adjustment to be had.
Hello Tuner and welcome back,
You are implying that as each round is stripped from the magazine and hits different locations on the ramp there is a ricochet which directs that round to hit different targets on the barrel throat/chamber. Is this true?
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Is this true?
Nope. I'm saying that the amount of gap required is dependent on the feed ramp angle, and how it works with the barrel ramp angle...and that the 1/32nd inch gap provides the best chance of working when one or the other isn't just right. I guess instead of calling it a standard, it would be better to call it the best compromise, given the variations and lack of adherence to proper specs that seems to be the rule these days, rather than the exception. The hypothetical mid-spec pistol doesn't exist in the real world
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If the feed ramp is dead on 31 degrees. . .
And dead on is 31.5deg, right?
If dead on is 31.5, and the original specs call for less than 1/32 gap... it appears the 1/32 may be the compromise when makers can't get the ramp angle correct. I find ramp angle is far more important than the gap.
I've seen too many frames with slightly different angles and gaps that it makes one one wonder what makers are thinking.
How can someone measure a ramp angle to +/i .5deg?
I only have a protractor style measurement tool that reads at best +/- 1 degree. Do I trig it out with Tan = Rise/Run?
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If dead on is 31.5. . .
"Dead on" is probably a poor choice of words. Should have said the Ordnance specification is 31deg30' +/- 0deg30'.
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How can someone measure a ramp angle to +/- .5deg?
While the General No.17 protractor I use has graduations of only 1deg, mine can be easily read (by interpolating between graduations) to 0.5deg. With magnification and concentration, the nearest 1/3 or 1/4 is achievable. That's possible only because the scale and beam graduations are quite narrow for such an inexpensive instrument. 50+ years experience interpolating analog meter movements doesn't hurt either!
Eric, when I cut my last feed ramp at my friend's machine shop, he had a machinist's protractor with a vernier and a magnifying glass, marked down to the minute. I'm positive my feed ramp is at 31.5 degrees.
OK,you know what your gun likes and what it doesn't. A few more rounds for break-in? Have fun!
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How can someone measure a ramp angle to +/- .5deg?
10 inch sine plate can easily go to minutes and even seconds if you're careful... Frankly, I think too much is made of this 31.5 degree ramp angle. Measure 10 guns, you'll get 10 different results. There are many new, big name frames, that cannot be corrected to 31.5 with out a weld up. There are other factors to consider that affect feeding... fore and aft magazine slop, and mag seating height play a big part in some guns. .22 conversions are an excellent example.