Forgive (and correct) my terminology. The slide is hanging about 1/3" off the rear of the slide. The lower lugs (I think that is what they are called, the part that rides on the slide stop) show no contact with the slide stop. The upper locking lugs (again I may be wrong with terminology) have those little pads that are supposed to be filed. I called the guys at Kart and they said just to keep filing and it would move into battery.
I've filed those little things darn near down to nothing, checking my progress, and the slide didn't move AT ALL. I've attached pictures.
Can anyone help me?
Your last pic shows that the barrel is not moved up into the slide, and as a guess I'd say that's because the vertical locking lugs are not meshing. My second guess is that is because the barrel hood is too long to allow them to mesh. Filing down the fitting pads has not done anything because the pads are not in contact with the slide.
Have you removed any material from from the aft end of the barrel hood?
A little. However I have only a small amount of contact at the rear of the hood and the breech face. Would that be preventing it from moving forward?
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A little. However I have only a small amount of contact at the rear of the
hood and the breech face. Would that be preventing it from moving forward?
It certainly could.
Install the barrel & bushing in the slide with the muzzle protruding about an inch out of the bushing. Turn it all upside down on the bench and slowly push the barrel back as far as it will go in the slide.
Q: Did you feel the back of the barrel suddenly drop down into the slide as the hood got close to (or touched) the breechface?
If not, the locking lugs are not meshing.
Q: If not, and with the barrel pushed back as far as it will go, can the barrel be pushed forward in the slide?
If it can, the locking lugs are not meshing.
I appreciate you being so patient.
I held only the slide, no frame, with the barrel and bushing installed. I slid the barrel back and it never dropped. I even pushed "up" (as if to force the locking lugs into their appropriate grooves) and it didn't mesh.
I'm guessing it must be the rear of the hood then?
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I'm guessing it must be the rear of the hood then?
Don't guess. There's only three things that will prevent meshing:
* Contact between the aft end of the hood and the breechface (hood's too long),
* Contact between the sides of the hood and the breechface guide blocks (hood's too wide), or
* Contact between the chamber face and the breechface guide blocks.
Only you can find out why they're not meshing.
And if there's really nothing much left of the fitting pads you may have ruined that barrel for proper fitting. When you do get the lugs to mesh, the barrel may have a lot of vertical play between the slide and the slide stop cross pin.
That's what I was afraid of.
I'm hoping I can salvage this thing. Worst case, maybe I can ship it back to Kart and they might be able to rebuild those pads?
Who knows. I'm gonna try again tomorrow once I'm calmed down.
Well so much for waiting. After a stream of profanity, cursing myself for ruining a perfectly good barrel and potentially angering the ghost of JMB, I took a file to the rear of the barrel hood and now the rear of the slide is just 1/16" of an inch off the rear of the frame!
The barrel is now dropped into the upper locking lugs.
So all I should have to do now is evenly file those upper lugs until the slide is flush?
Maybe and maybe not.
You need to check and see if the slide stop pin is in contact with the legs of the barrel's lower lug. If it is, then filing on the pads on the upper lugs won't let the slide move any further forward. Mark the lower lug with a marker, Dykem, or lipstick and see.
If the SS pin is in full contact with the lower lug feet, then you'll need to remove material there to let the slide move forward more. You can do that with either the lower lug cutter Brownells sells or with a round file if you're careful.
If the SS pin is not yet in full contact, then allowing the barrel to move further up into the slide will let the slide move forward. Be very careful at this stage, though. You need to keep double checking where you need to remove material because the breech face is at an angle and the breech face guide blocks in your slide may not be perfectly parallel. As the barrel moves up, it may start to bind again on the hood somewhere that it did not before. Coat the barrel hood and the upper barrel lug with some type of marking fluid and see where its hitting.
Good luck and be patient.
Please check headspace as soon as possible. I recently fit a Kart Easy Fit NM barrel that eventually didn't have enough head space by only .005-.008 and this was enough to generate 20% failure to return to batter with Speer Lawman ammo.
I determined that National Match (MN) barrels have short chambers after reading Kuhnhausen Vol -2 pages 104-105. NM barrel's also have long hoods to offset the short chamber an allow tight fits to most pistols.
Unfortunately my pistol still does not have enough head space to work properly and I am now calling all the local gun smiths to learn who I can trust to lower the chamber .010.
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So all I should have to do now is evenly file those upper lugs until the
slide is flush?
Definitely not! This will play havoc with the needed barrel/slide clearance at linkdown - and you may end up damaging the slide!
Do as Tom says and see if the barrel's forward motion is being halted by the verical portion of the lower lugs. If so, then there are two ways to get the aft end of the slide flush with the frame:
* Whack material off the vertical portion of the lower lugs, or
* Whack material off the aft end of the slide.
Best way to judge which method to use is see how the thumb safety aligns with its notch in the slide.
Q: Will the thumb safety go up into its notch in the slide when the gun's as far as it will now go into battery?
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...maybe I can ship it back to Kart and they might be able to rebuild those
pads?
I'm guessing a local 'smith with welding skills could do it for you too. Don't know a lot about welding, but I think MIG or TIG would be best for that kind of work.
Perhaps some other Forum member could tell you which (MIG, TIG or something else) would be best.
I haven't fitted a ramped 'E-Z Fit' barrel and only one std 'E-Z Fit'.
The one that I did fit took several hours and several stop-start intervals. Even then, I managed to fit it to the second barrel lug. That was to a Nork.
You haven't mentioned, but I seem to remember a tool kit that Mr. Kart offered that was useful in fitting the assembly.
If you made use of the kit, I do not know if it is different for a ramped barrel.
I do remember that the sequence was adjusting the barrel hood/slide first and lug-slot engagement of barrel pads/slide second.
Maybe I dis-remember the process.
Have you called Mr. Kart and talked with him? If there is anyone in the world that knows that process well enough to patent it, it'd be Fred Kart.
salty
edit: Just speaking for me, instructions are lots of help. Mostly though, instructions and knowledge aren't the same and come at a different price. As proven by the last swing set that I tried to put togeter.
I don't know, but I doubt that Kart would offer 'E-Z Fit' barrels where the customer would need to finish ream the chamber.
Called Mr. Kart before this whole incident. EXTREMELY nice guy.
Unfortunately I guess I didn't ask my question properly, which is why I got overzealous with the upper lug pads. The EZ fit barrel does not have to be finish reamed.
The barrel is fit, however, now the slide is VERY sticky coming out of battery. Could this be the slide stop binding on the lower lugs?
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The barrel is fit, however, now the slide is VERY sticky coming out of
battery. Could this be the slide stop binding on the lower lugs?
Try an old, loose barrel bushing. A lot of the 'stickiness' that you feel, frequently comes from the bushing.
Tried the "bench bushing" that comes with the EZ fit kit. It's pretty loose and it still binds. It's definitely not on the sides of the hood contacting the breech face, either.
Any other ideas?
Have you chambered an empty, de-primed case and checked firing pin hole/cartridge case alignment? This will let you know if the barrel is too low (seldom too high unless you have a lot of wear or cut too much out of the grooves) or too far off from one side to the other.
Remove the firing pin and determine if you can cycle ammo.
Use lots of Dykum and see where its hanging up. Hood, Upper and lower lugs and end of barrel. Don't guess or get in a hurry now.
I'm showing contact everywhere. I can slam it fully into battery, but the upper locking lugs seem to "snap" whenever I FORCE (I really have to push) it out of battery.
What could be causing the locking lugs to hang up like this?
When you say "showing contact everywhere" what do you mean? Do you have "hard" contact on the end of the hood? The one I fit was acting much like you describe and the hood was binding on the breachface, but that DOES NOT necessarily mean that is what is wrong with yours.
I've only fit one EZ-Fit and not a ramped one, but I recall that it had some pretty specific clearance recommendations on the hood, particularly the sides.
Also, this is a fresh build from a bare frame and slide correct?
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What could be causing the locking lugs to hang up like this?
Don't assume it's the locking lugs - or anything else. Investigate it logically with an open mind.
Start by seeing if the barrel will go effortlessly into the battery position within the slide (no frame).
It will. I can simply slide the barrel back while holding the slide upside down and it drops into the battery position.
What does that signify? Since I've eliminated the problem by eliminating the lower lugs in the equation, does that mean the lower lugs are what is causing the binding?
How much clearance do you have between the top of the barrel and the top inside of the slide when the barrel links down?
.003" measured from the top of the barrel to the top inside the slide.
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Since I've eliminated the problem by eliminating the lower lugs in the
equation, does that mean the lower lugs are what is causing the binding?
Whoa. Not so fast. What else besides the lower lugs did you eliminate? Maybe that little swingy thingy between the lower lugs??
Does it bind without the link installed?
.003 is not a whole heck of a lot of clearance; you might be getting that thump because the barrel is a bit late linking down.
I think your link is long and you are camming over as the slide goes into battery.
Do what the other posters have suggested and remove your link.
Make sure you are correct with the slide and barrel before you mess with the lower lugs or link though. I'd also suggest you look over Schuemann's timing writeup to really understand what you're trying to do here.
A tight bushing will give a little 'drag' coming out of battery, those first few hundred thousandths...
I recently noticed that the slide's locking lugs are dragging on the top of the barrel hood when the barrel is fully down.
Not enough to affect function, but my guess is that if it's that close coming out of battery, it's probably putting a lot of stress on the locking lugs.
Any ideas? My thought is that the link may be too long.
It's a Kart EZ fit barrel, Wilson cut ramp
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I recently noticed that the slide's locking lugs are dragging on the top of
the barrel hood when the barrel is fully down.
Is the barrel actually (really, truly, no kiddin') fully down? Or, are you guessing it is just because the slide is back? This asked because interference between the bottom of the barrel and the inside of the slide can prevent the barrel from falling fully down so that its drop is stopped by the frame.
Perform the linkdown timing tests from Schuemann Barrel in our Tech Issues section as suggested waaaay back in March of last year.