The backstory; I got what I thought was a ok deal on a decent shooter, a Norinco. I know, Chi-Com POS and whatnot... But it is what it is and it's mine and now I have to deal with it. I got it used and wasn't able to strip it before buying to look things over.
I've come to find a problem with the barrel lugs being peened. I attached a picture of the problem (muzzle to the left, breech right).
Being a good THR-er I did a search before posting and found this thread: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=211889
If I understand correctly, basically the barrel is worth scrap and I need to find a competent smith and fork over the $$$ to make it right. Ugh... And I shouldn't shoot it due to headspace issues, right?
Just to make sure, I would like to ask; is there any way I can fix this without breaking the bank? Any way to fix it myself?
Can the THR resident-1911 gurus lend a poor college student a hand and pass on some of that 1911-knowledge?
That looks more like a linkdown timing/drop clearance issue than simple lug setback and flanging. Has the barrel been long-linked?
Can you get a clear picture of the first lug? It's hidden in this shot.
Will this picture work, Tuner? It's a little fuzzy, but I think it shows the lugs ok.
So are you thinking I might be able to fix this with a new barrel with the correct length barrel link?
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So are you thinking I might be able to fix this with a new barrel with the
correct length barrel link?
Don't know yet. The lugs... Looking down on them from the top... do they have a stair-stepped appearance? Or... are they just mangled?
If they're stepped, it looks like a super-soft barrel, judging from the amount of vertical engagement they have. If they're mangled, and not stepped... let's have a look at the barrel with the link hanging vertically.
I'd call it "stepped." Each of the bearing surfaces is about equally peened compared to the others. And it's even across the "face" (? muzzle side?) of the lugs looking down from the top.
Similar as to in the other thread I referenced, the slide lugs look just fine. More pics to follow in a couple minutes...
And thanks, Tuner, for taking the time to help me with this, I do appreciate it.
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...let's have a look at the barrel with the link hanging vertically.
Will this work?
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The lugs... looking down on them from the top... do they have a stair-
stepped appearance? Or... are they just mangled?
Maestro says "From the top:"
The lighting kinda sucks, sorry 'bout that. There is a definite "step" looking from the side. The top edge is rounded over or peened, but still sharp to the touch. With the barrel in the slide, everything put together, there is space between the front of the barrel lugs and the back of the slide lugs. It appears that during early recoil/slide movement there is enough of a gap to allow the slide to slam into the barrel instead of being locked up until lug disengagement.
But, now that I look at my SA, it does the same thing too... but no problems with the lugs...
I hope I'm making sense...
I studied and re-studied those pix, and I can't quite understand the metallurgical situation of the barrel, I thought I saw a stress crack in an area of not great stress, And then supposedly soft metal crystalized and fractured. Is this from "work hardening"?
berkbw- Where do you see stress fractures? And in which picture? I don't think there are any, but maybe I'm not seeing something. I'm looking at the barrel and I don't think there are any cracks...
Okay. That's lug setback. The rounded top edge is probably from the flanging as the slide passes over it and ironing it out rather than from a likdown timing or clearance problem.
This is one of those one-in-five Norincos that I started to see later in my examinaton program when I put out the call to any owners to bring'em in.
I went through a lot of'em without seeing any serious barrel issues...and then they started to show up more often. The 1:5 ratio is an average of all that I looked at.
You're due for a new barrel, and a Norinco take-off barrel won't do it. You're gonna need a hard-fit barrel, and you'll wind up with the firing pin strike low on the primer unless you have the rails peened to lower the slide to spec height from the slidestop pin centerline. This isn't a simple rail peen/swage operation as with a gun that's within spec, but just worn. I did it just recently with a Norinco...my second one that required a full frame reworking...and it's labor-intensive. The cheapest route is to go with a full hard-fit barrel and live with the off-center pin strike.
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and I can't quite understand the metallurgical situation of the barrel, I
thought I saw a stress crack in an area of not great stress
Soft steel underneath with a hard chrome plate. If the lugs are sufficiently engaged vertically the barrels hold up well. If not... this is the result.
And... Stress in an area of not-too-great stress... The lugs are under a huge amount of stress every time the gun fires. Specifically, on the front faces of the barrel lugs and rear faces of the slide lugs... as evidenced by the severe lug setback and deformation seen here. This is the worst example I've seen yet, no doubt from a lot of use before the former owner noticed the damage and decided to dump it.
Ok, so I guess that about wraps it up then.
My final questions then are; can I get an estimate for how much money it would be to have a barrel fitted properly? How much for the work and how much for a good barrel?
Can I do a "drop-in" barrel myself or no?
The only "local" gunsmiths I can think of work at a Gander Mountain, and I don't have any experience with gunsmiths so I don't know how good they are there.
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My final questions then are; can I get an estimate for how much money it
would be to have a barrel fitted properly? How much for the work and how much
for a good barrel?
I'd go with a Kart hard-fit... aka "Full Gunsmith Fit" barrel. Kart makes some of the best barrels in the biz, and the price is reasonable. For the barrel... link... bushing, and labor, you can figure on about 200-225 dollars.
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Can I do a "drop-in" barrel myself or no?
You can, but it probably won't help much. Drop-ins don't provide the extra meat on the lower lug that you need to get the lugs to full vertical engagement with the slide.
Have the smith check the vertical lug engagement in the slide. If it's got as much as .040 inch, you can get by with an Easy-Fit, or maybe even a drop-in. I suspect that you're getting about .030 inch, though.
FWIW, I did it with a Norinco that had been chromed by Tripp. I couldn't drop the frame rails, so I went with a hard-fit Kart. The firing pin strike was quite a bit low... more than I'm comfortable with... but there were no problems whatsoever with misfires. The gun did shoot lower because of the greater tilt... but because it was shooting high with the original barrel, it sorta evened out with 2 inches low at 25 yards, and into one ragged hole.