Subject: Re: <37904@mimsy.umd.edu>

<37904@mimsy.umd.edu>
Aug 26 1991, 12:23 
amber...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)

In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> trsvax!e...@utacfd.uta.edu writes: 
 
 #/* ---------- "Re: +P+ loads in 45, and barrels w" ---------- */ 
 #In article <37...@mimsy.umd.edu> ber...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) writes: 

 ##In article <37...@mimsy.umd.edu> bcstec!iftccu!bress...@uunet.uu.net 
 ##(Rick Bressler) writes: 
 
 ###James Douglas Del Vecchio asks: 
 ####How far can one increase the load of the .45acp, given a fully 
 ####suported chamber?  Where can someone get such a barrel, and what 
 ####guns come with such barrels? 
 ## 
 ###To my knowledge, no 1911 style guns have the fully supported chamber. 
 ## 
 ##There may be no stock 1911s with a fully-supported chamber (aka ramped 
 ##barrel), but you _can_ buy an aftermarket ramped barrel in 45 ACP.  It's 
 ##made by Clark and sold by Brownell among others. 
 ## 
 ##     JHBercov...@lbl.gov    (John Bercovitz) 
 #*********************************************************************** 
 #    Actually the real limiting factor is the brass cartridge cases themselves! 
 #The standard 45 ACP cases are only made for relatively low pressure loads up 
 #to around 18000 to 19000 CUP's. Even with a fully supported chamber, the cases 
 #will blow out at high pressures, due to the very thin case side walls near the 
 #brass head. 
 [lots of good stuff deleted] 
 
I thought the definition of a fully-supported chambered was that the case 
 sidewalls were supported all the way out until you reach the solid part of 
 the case head.  Apparently not all fully-supported chambers are fully- 
 supported!  Caveat emptor, as usual. 
 
Years ago I made up a 45 auto dummy round and split it longitudinally from 
 the primer end to the middle of the case.  With another cut, I freed and 
 removed half of the rear of the case.  I then stuck this case in my Gold 
 Cup's chamber to see how well supported was the case wall at the rear of 
 the chamber.  It was really surprising.  It proved what a low-pressure 
 round the 45 must be.  It's a simple experiment and most instructive. 
 
JHBercov...@lbl.gov    (John Bercovitz) 
 

 
 
<37904@mimsy.umd.edu>
Aug 26 1991, 11:06 
pmh...@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)r

One thing you can do to make stronger .45 ACP cases is to make them from .308 
Win cases. 
 
Trim to length, ream the case neck inside (necessary!) to the bullet seating 
depth, anneal the necks, and load.  Note that you *will* need to work up loads for these cases specially, as they are *much* thicker than .45 ACP cases. 
 
Used to do this all the time, when I had more .308 and .30-06 cases and free time 
than I knew what to do with. 
 
-- 
 Kirk Hays - NRA Life. 
 "... history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their 
 subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall" 
 -Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938. 
 
   
 
 
<37904@mimsy.umd.edu>
Aug 27 1991, 1:59 
pmh...@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)rec.guns   Kirk Hays   
In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu>, h...@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes: 
 
 |> 
 |> One thing you can do to make stronger .45 ACP cases is to make them from .308 
 |> Win cases. 
 |> 
 |> Trim to length, ream the case neck inside (necessary!) to the bullet seating 
 |> depth, anneal the necks, and load.  Note that you *will* need to work up loads for these cases specially, as they are *much* thicker than .45 ACP cases. 
 |> 
 |> Used to do this all the time, when I had more .308 and .30-06 cases and free time 
 |> than I knew what to do with. 
 
I received several more queries on this, so here's some followup: 
 
Back off 10% from your current load, or start at the minimum load 
 listed in the reloading manual, whichever is greater. 
 
The interesting thing about cases formed this way, is that they can 
 obviate the need for a reloading press, in an emergency, much like 
 some of the big buffalo calibers of the last century.   
 
You can decap with a nail, recap with a dowel and a hard surface, dump 
 in the powder, then seat the bullet with a billet of wood, as the 
 shelf inside the case will prevent you from seating the bullet too 
 deeply, if you are careful during the neck reaming.  Stab crimp with a 
 nail, if you feel the need. 
 
Probably not the most reliable rounds, particularly for feeding in an 
 auto, but I've done this a couple of times, on a lark. 
 
Such cases can last nearly forever, if you neck anneal every 10-15 
 reloadings.  The case heads are so much harder in rifle cases, that 
 primer pockets simply never stretch. 
 
Just as a warning, I've never tried sizing such cases in a carbide 
 die, so there might be some problems with that, and the harder bases. 
 
Also, I am not 100% sure that the rim meets the SAAMI spec for .45 ACP 
 dimensions, but I never had a failure to feed or extract with cases 
 that I made. 
 
.45 Winchester Magnum (is this right?  the stretched .45 ACP is what I 
 mean) cases are also a possibility, this being the method used to 
 develop the original wildcat, as well as some of the .357/45 
 bottleneck cases. 
 
Also, a trim die comes in very handy if you are doing a lot of these.   
 The trim die has a very hard insert in the top, allowing the direct use 
 of a hacksaw to cut off the cases.  RCBS used to sell them from the factory, 
 I've never seen one anywhere else. 
 
Talked with my father this morning, and he still has 4,000 of these cases 
 I made in his basement.  Maybe I'll have him ship them out. 
 
-- 
 Kirk Hays - NRA Life.   
 "... history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their 
  subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall" 
 -Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938.