Well I just sold one of the kids and I'm goanna start a new 9x23 project, I know some of you guys have experience with this caliber so I thought I'd seek advice before i ordered parts as the only 9x23 I've played with is a Colt factory model.
So far I've got planned a Caspian frame and slide, Ed Brown or Nowlin non ramped barrel Aftec extractor, Wilson 38 Super ejector, Nowlin trigger parts, Wilson grip and thumb safety and other small parts from Brown. Any advice on parts or things to do differently on this one than on a .45?
Sounds pretty good to me. I have got a Caspian 9x23/9x19 I have been piddling with for quite some time. Actually it is now about 95%. I am taking it to the range this afternoon to tweak the extractor and decide how much to grind off the .250 tall front sight. I went the ramped barrel route and had to have Pistolwrench bail me out as I bought a ready cut frame from Caspian and they went a little long on the tolerances making the ramp cut. To make a long story short I wished I had went with the 180 dollar non ramped Nowlin barrel instead of the less expensive Schuemanns to start with. Just my opinion but I think an Aftec extractor is way over rated. Also Caspian limits you to Wilson only beaver tails for a perfect seamless fit. I noticed Nowlin has their web site back up and lists there frames for 219. They are the same as CMC's, Kimbers, and Wilsons. Or at least they come from the same factory. My Caspian slide fit tight perfect (would have required a small amount of lapping) onto my CMC .45 frame. Just a thought for less fitting head ache as I fit the Caspian to Caspian with a sharpening rock and it took alot of elbow grease. Also if you go short chambered I have the SAAMI reamers for 9x19 and 9x23. I also have a left over brand new Schuemann Clark/Para ramped stainless .355 barrel with instructions I will probably let go of for cheap. As alot of folks like to argue the ramped non-ramped topic.
My next 9x23 is going to be a full rehab of a Colt 1991 38 Super but thats a year or two down the road.
Stick with a ramped barrel, case pressure is very high. The AFTEC is a last resort extractor. Use a 9mm extractor, 38 is a semi rimmed case. Some extractors are sold as 9mm/38, trim to fit. There is a difference between a 38super and 9mm breech face, which can cause a 9mm case to slip off the extractor.
Ocibell, I'm only planning on usuing winchester cases to reload with and not pushing for the stars on my loads so I am goanna us a plain old non ramped barrel. If I don't go with the aftec what extractor do you guys recomend?
Your setup sounds good to me too.
From the pressure point of view, a ramped bbl. will only be necessary if you plan to use brass other the Win. 9x23mm. But a ramped bbl. would be advantageous because it supplies it's own feed ramp. Some people have had feeding problems with the 9x23mm because the cartridge is long. I did until I adjusted the extractor properly. I also had to cut down the front sight too, unfortunate because the front sight I used was a genuine prewar Colt .38 Super Match. The 9x23mm shoots so flat that conventional sights won't zero with the stock front sight height. Having a longer sight radius didn't help this either. My pistol favors 125 FP or RN, driven at a fairly outrageous velocity, over 1700 fps from the 6" bbl. Use rifle primers and Win. 9x23mm brass only, needless to say. I don't think you can safely get the velocity this high with a 5" bbl.
There are pictures and descriptions of the 9x23mm longslide and the 60's Colt .38 Super I did in the "My Projects" section.
Well I went to the range and fired both 9 and 9x23 a hundred rounds a piece. Made 1 inch groups at 15 yards so I was happy about that. No FTF or FTE on either caliber at all, although, I have yet to alter the tip of the ejector as it is still long and square and about one out every 6 or 7 9x23 rounds are getting seriously dinked on two sides of the case mouth. I think they are leaving the ejection port to early. I haven't even beveled the extractor at all yet. Just tensioned it by feel. It worked fine. It is a Caspian extractor for 38 super. I used the factory recoil spring set up out of my Colt 9x23 today and would be curious to hear from others what they spring their 9x23's with. On another note I am not terribly happy with the EGW slide stop as it walks several thousandths to the left and then fails to lock the slide back.
Also, Fibergeek what are you loading with and how much. I use 7.5 to 8.5 grains of 3n37 and 6.3 grains of 231 for light loads on 9x23
124 gr. FMJ, 10.2 grs. VV 3N37, and a Win. small rifle primer. This is a compressed load. Hotter than hell, but I have no pressure signs. Expect about 100 fps slower with a 5" bbl. This load works fine in my pistol, you will have to work your way up for yours. i cronographed it on several occasions, I didn't believe the velocity at first.
Harley wrote: "Ocibell, I'm only planning on usuing winchester cases to reload with and not pushing for the stars on my loads so I am goanna us a plain old non ramped barrel. If I don't go with the aftec what extractor do you guys recomend?"
Harley: 1st off, I load this for IPSC so I do some weird things that non-IPSC shooters should not worry about. I agree w. Oci on the ramped barrel thing. If you are not shooting for "Major Power Factor" & using Winchester brass, you can use the non-ramped barrel. Nothing wrong w/ a ramped barrel unless you have a frame already & then you would have to have it cut for the appropriate ramp. Winchester 9x23 brass is made thick just for the unsupported 1911 barrel - i.e., the non-ramped barrel. Load within published parameters & you will be fine. Handloader had some loads a while back - they were a bit anemic by IPSC standards, but safe for unsupported barrels. I use the thinner Starline 9Supercomp and because its thin (and I run 115 at over 1480FPS), I run a ramped barrel in an SV frame - most IPSC guys have this setup. I jave sectioned Starline * Winchester brass - Win is significantly thicker. I load VV N-105 compressed under Montana 115 JHPs. Sm rifle primers, no pressure signs. Extractor? Nowlin. Let us know how it goes.
Fibergeek, did you try any 147 gr loadings? I've heard of some getting between 1300/1350 with this bullet?
As for the 125 I was usuing 7.5gr of vn350 and getting about 1300 fps which seemed like a real nice load in my Colt. Are you guys usuing the Weigand tool to adjust extractor tension or just by feel? I'd really like to use a standard part instead of the Aftec if everyone thinks it will work
Harley, here are your loadings all the way up to 160 grns for the .38 stupid, err . . I meant Super. I am not a fan of the Super. The data will interchange.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/
Now before somebody crows about 9x23 not being the same as .38 Super, its true - 9x23 is much hotter. That being said, I use an Aftec extractor in my SV and it digests super, supercomp, 9supercomp, 9x23 and CCI Blazer 9mm Largo without a hitch. The gun is so strong that none of these rounds phase it.
As far as 147 loads, an IPSC shooter would never shoot these in an open gun because they would kick too much to shoot fast (really really fast) and would not work the comp efficiently.
You are shooting a non comp gun? Go for it. One BIG word of caution - there are explanatory notes at the front and back end of Jeff's load page. Read it twice! Specifically, there are loads that mention "hybrid holes" and if the load specifies that, back WAY off to start. There are guns w/ holes 2" past the throat that start venting pressure so early that it takes one hell of a lot of powder to get the velocity (and power factor) listed. In a non-vented barrel like yours, such a load WILL pop the gun, as in KB, as in "hand" grenade. Watch out for this. Like I said, we IPSC shooters do some weird things so approach w/ caution. I don't mean to brag about IPSC but if its related to 9x23 or .38 sup, we are the ones to ask since we have tried it all and we KNOW what works - usually through finding out the hard way (hey, we are the ones who coined the term "superface"). I also live/shoot very close to DC and this area, MD/VA, has the best tallent in the country when it comes to building and shooting these guns.
As for 1300/1350 with 147s, I think V V N105 may be your best bet. It will make a 147 do 1122FPS out of a 9x19 and that is the new watered-down-for-the- USA version of the reloading book; I am sure the .38 data is much faster.
Let us know what you find out.
I haven't tried any 147 gr. loads yet, my goal here was velocity. I did try 115 gr. and 95 gr. bullets, but my pistol likes 125 gr. and probably heavier bullets.
I adjusted the extractor by trial and error; bending it and fileing a little then testing. I ruined the first one, the second worked out OK. These were stock Colt .38 Super extractors.
Guys thanks for the info I think I will try the aftec just because I'd like to try and make the gun shoot 38 super also.
I'd be interested in the 147 grainer for a defensive round. Never have seen any load data for that weight in 9 by figured the longer bullet would make for more pressure. Also my factory Colt 9x23 will feed and eject 38 supers like it was made for em.
Hey Ociebell - I looked up the data for 147s on Jeff's site posted above & man, what a disappointment! In .38 sup, nothing listed came too close to going over 1300FPS for the 147s. So, I pulled out the V V free data version 2/2002 and the best they could do for .38 sup was a Hornady 147 grn XTP-JHP over 8.4 grns of their excellent N105 clocking a claimed 1293 FPS out of a 5.5" barrel. Nothing to sneeze at, but I'd be willing to bet our boy the 9x23 can safely best that! There might be more data over on Dane Burn's website at www.pistolsmith.com
The only data I could find for the 147 over on Dane's site was for vectan sp2 powder which I can't locate a source stateside for. I believe it was about 9gr for about 1400fps. Man would I like to have a load like that!!!!
Fibergeek, have you tried to shoot any 38 super out of your longslide 9x23? just curious if it will work.
I haven't tried .38 Super in my longslide. It will probably work, I might have to put in a .38 Super extractor at worst. But why would I want an underpowered 9x23mm?
38 Super works in a 9x23 chambered barrel, but not vice versa. The 9mm case taper will stall at the last 1/16 to 1/8" in a Super chamber. This also wrecks the Super brass.