Topic: 1911 in .40 ?

original: homegunsmith
Retrieved: November 05, 2011
Last Post: April 18, 2005

RogueWar
Mar. 23 2005
Is there away to get a 1911 in .40 ? I want to build one but im not sure where to start.
TX400cb1911
Mar. 23 2005
sure there's a way! you'll need a slide cut for that caliber (or 10mm) and of course a barrel ( for this round it is strongly reccommended that you go with a supported or ramped barrel) and a magazine designed to feed the .40/10mm aside from that all the parts are the standard 1911 - what ever suits your fancy
RogueWar
Mar. 23 2005
where would one start for getting the slide and barrel?
pistolwrench
Mar. 23 2005
The 40 short and weak is not a GREAT choice in the 1911.

The rds are of course, at 9mm overall length in factory offerings. This can lead to feeding probs, usually with the first rd out of the mag.

Colt had some 40sw mags with a spacer at the rear, like the 9mm mags, to help with this. But I have seen only a few of those mags.

The 40sw works well in competition guns, with handloads equal to overall length of the 45acp, 38 super.

The 40sw is one of my LEAST fav rds, in any format. Pressure, muzzle blast and flash, exceed my wants for a close quarters weapon.


308flinger
Mar. 23 2005
I am building a .40 short & weak right now and got my slide from Caspian and my barrel from Schuemann. Hope this helps. :thumbs:

Are you building for competition or is it just novelty?


Blindhogg
Mar. 23 2005
Most of us get our small parts from Brownells at WWW.brownells.com if you do not have a catalogue get one. Its a great place to start.
308flinger
Mar. 24 2005
I second getting a brownells catalog but if you are going to by much from them get the dealer discount. The catalog will have the super secret dealer prices in it. :ignore:
RogueWar
Mar. 24 2005
protection. I love the .40 round for some odd reason. It's not too much or too little and "seems" just right. I would build a .45 but the ONLY 1 I've shot that felt good and the recoil was fine was a 70's Gold cup.
CBR600
Mar. 24 2005
I built one off of KT's frame; search on my post in the finish section & follow the link I provided to see a picture of it right out of the bead blaster.

I disagree w/ pistolwrench; he wrote:

The 40 short and weak is not a GREAT choice in the 1911.

Fair enough. However, I handload .40. Take a look at the max book-load for a 200 grn bullet loaded in a .40 over Vihta Vouri N105 powder. Notice the velocity? over 1100 FPS. In that load, the 40 gives up very little to the 10mm. Is the 10mm "Weak" ? Nope. Even factory loads are hardly "weak"; I think the name calling simply comes from the mis-informed. However, we all have our biases and favorites. I think the 40 is fine.

On to your project: With 1911 mags, you can use both 10mm and special .40 mags. Metal-Form makes mags for several 1911 makers (STI & Springfield armory I believe). I bought some in a group buy; if you buy between 40 and 80 magazines, the cost drops to just $13 per mag. Don't make the mistake I made and get the ".40 only" mags. I'd get the 10mm mags instead so you can load the .40 out to 1.200" and longer. You can also use the KobraMag from Tripp Research, the Colt mag, the Mec-Gar 10mm mag etc. (incl at least one .45 mag that works).

I think it is flat out irresponsible to manufacture a 1911 barrel in .40 that does not have case support. Any non-ramped 1911 barrel has very little case support. Use a ramped barrel or don't bother building the gun in .40 IMHO.

.40 slides come from STI, SV, and Caspian among others. Makers of complete guns inc Srpingfield Armory Custom shop, kimber, Wilson, Brown, Bul/IMI among others.

Please keep us up to date whatever you decide. Regards, D.


mel1956
April 18 2005
CBR600, why a ramped barrel? The original 10mm delta elite came with a non-ramped barrel and worked great. Does the 40 generate more pressure than the 10mm? Ed Brown has both ramped and non-ramped 40 and 10mm barrel in the brownell's catalog (the ramped are 5 inch bull barrels) for the same price. I can't imagine that Ed Brown would manufacture a non-ramped .40 (or 10mm) barrel if it were not safe, considering the liability happy lawyers in the country. I'm working on building a .40/10mm 1911 myself and would rather use the non-ramped barrel because of the cost savings of not having to have the frame machined (I don't have the skill nor access to a mill to make the cuts myself; I would if I knew anyone in the fort worth, texas area that would show me how to use a mill and has access to a mill I could use :D )
CBR600
April 18 2005
I am opposed to any non-ramped barrel in a 1911 except for .45, 10mm (which has a thicker/stronger case web than .40) 9x23 or low - powered 9mm. Why?

The non ramped 1911 barrel is unsupported.

You thought that Glock barrels were bad? The unramped 1911 barrel is REALLY lacking in case support.

There are 2 reasons why an unramped 1911 barrel is out there on the market:

1) .45 ACP only generates 18,500 PSI & at that low of a pressure, you do not need case support to produce a safe, effective, & powerful handgun. .45 is just fine w/o extra case support or the thicker web of the .45 Super.

2) Some cartridge cases feature thicker case webs to make up for the lack of support in the unramped 1911 barrel but still allow higher pressure than 18,500 PSI. What cases are those? The 10MM the 9x23 (which started out as the 5.56mm case trimmed to 23mm - its designed to withstand the 60,000 PSI of the 5.56mm though with a 9mm bullet) and the .45 Super which allows vast increases in the potential power of the .45.

I shoot a lot of USPSA competition (once called IPSC in the USA). In the late 80s, we tried to push the .38 super to higher velocity in the un-ramped 1911 barrel. How far did we go? We were (and still are) pushing a 124 grn bullet to faster than 1411 FPS. Yes- that is in .357 Magnum and .357 Sig territory. In an unsupported 1911 barrel, sometimes it worked, and sometimes the case let go from lack of support. It happened to us so often that we even coined the term "Superface" since the case would blow & you got a face full of brass & hot powder. We tried it & found out from vast experience what happens when you use an unsupported barrel for high pressure calibers.

Once we started using supported, ramped .38 Super barrels, the problem disappeared completly. Case support curred the problem 100%. If you have a chance, look at the factory ballistics of the factory .38 super; pretty weak isn't it? Not much better than a hot 9x19mm. Yet without case support, that's all the companies will risk. Use a ramped barrel & everything changes.

Now the .40 runs at factory standard of 35,000 PSI. Despite what some producers want you to believe, there is NO +p for .40 (SAAMI sets the standard for +P & they will tell you there is NO +p for .40). The .40 case has a web that is not as thick as the 10mm. Ed Brown might disagree, but I personally believe that making an unsupported 1911 barrel in .40 is irresponsible. The other thread in this section shows my .40 build & I went to the trouble & expense of using a ramped, supported .40 barrel. Wouldn't dream of doing otherwise.

If you do opt for the unsupported 1911 barrel, please, by God, stick to weak ammo. I am thinking of commercial reloads that operate at much much lower pressure. You could also seriously download your .40 ammo.


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