Hi, just wondering if anybody had some information on the 38 Special 1911. can a standard 40 of 45 be converted? Not sure the the breach of the 38 Special is. Are the locking lugs still used, they the same? The Special is my favorite caliber handgun to shoot. I love my 686 to death. Thought it would be cool to have it in a 1911.
IIRC Colt did make a National Match pistol in 38spl, but it was a blowback - I'm not sure how they achieved that.
This question came up on Target Talk a while ago. Here's a thread that discusses some of the options - http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=18641
An alternative would be a S&W Model 52. These are match pistols that shoot 38spl wadcutters.
Colt made a Gold Cup in .38SPL - back when bullseye shooting was popular. It shot wadcutters only. I've got one in the safe. Shall I break it out and take pictures? It needs some excercise...
Again, note that these are strictly for full wadcutters and not for standard .38 Special ammunition. The full wadcutter is seated flush with the case mouth, so the maximum length, even with a small rounded tip sticking out is under 1.15" long. That is within the 1.275" maximum of .45 ACP hardball, so it can fit in a magazine that fits in the magazine well of a 1911 frame. A round nose .38 Special at 1.55" would not.
The old Colt National Match pistols preceded the series 70 and had more hand work in them. Many are well fit guns.
I just found a complete Colt 38 special slide assembly. Is there anything special about the frame for one o these? slide stop pin hole in a different spot? Could i buy a standard frame and use it?
Awright, lookit.
In the golden age of target shooting, a serious shooter shot at bullseyes with one hand and three or even four guns; smallbore (.22), centerfire, bigbore (.45) and service pistol (.45.)
The centerfire was usually a .38 Special revolver. There was some use of .32 S&W Long but not very much, the K32 is a scarce collector's item, and the Officer's Model Target .32 is rare. Charles Askins' little experiment with the .22 centerfire got the minimum caliber set at .32.
But the .38 revolver had a very different manual of arms than the Woodsman .22 and the 1911 .45 and people wanted to shoot three automatics for consistency and to save having to cock the revolver. (If you run-n-gunners think five shots in ten seconds is not really "rapid fire", try it at 25 yards one handed on a target with a ten ring smaller than the B zone.)
So gunsmiths like Jim Clark set about building them .38 Special autos.
Take a .38 Super, replace the barrel or at least bush and rechamber for .38 Special, accurize the gun throughout, and build a magazine that would handle five mid range wadcutters. Fine precision gunsmithing.
So the factories got in on the act. S&W adapted the action of the Model 39 to .38 Special, tightened everything up and produced the Model 52. They are finely accurate (with a great trigger, Wood.)
Colt eventually countered with the Gold Cup .38. It looks like the .45 but is mechanically different. It runs in blowback with a slight delay from a floating barrel and a grooved chamber. I don't know why they went off on that tangent, maybe they could not duplicate the Clark and similar or equal the Model 52 and keep the .38 at the same price as the .45. They never sold as well as the Model 52 and Clark kept doing conversions. Colt even provided him with parts kits for the job.
But times change, nowadays, most bullseye shooters just fire their .45 wad(cutter) guns twice. And a lot have accurized Berettas for service pistols.
Wood,
I don't know what it would take to put a .38 Special Upper on a new frame. I saw a guy chop up one of the GC .38s to make a .45 out of it and it involved some modifications. I'd want my gunsmith's opinion before I paid for the slide. Note that it will handle .38 wadcutters ONLY and only five of those. Magazines are scarce and expensive, too.
Colt 1911 in 38 Special - a picture is worth 1000 words.
Wood,
I hope the Model 52 turns out to be a good deal and you get it.
Meanwhile, as promised, here are pictures of the Colt 1911 Gold Cup in .38 Special. I paid $400 for the gun many years ago. $400 was a screaming deal then, and I presume the firearm has appreciated. One thing I noticed when I cycled this critter was that the slide to frame fit is the finest I have ever felt. Like glass.
Gotta love the three digit serial number. And notice the -MR suffix.